Changing from chain stay roller brake to seat stay cantilever brake

[us56456712]

I got this idea from Sheldon Brown's web page. My roller brake rollers were fractured so the wedge kept coming loose so the rear brake didn't work. I have 2 more sets of roller brakes but I don't like them down in the dirt so I used Sheldon's advice to mount new posts on the seat stays. I used a MAPP torch to melt the braze on posts off an old frame. I used another bike with the same type of cantilever brakes to get the position of the posts, using calipers. I tacked on the new posts and fitted the brakes to see how they lined up. Oops, one had to be re tacked. Some gentle hammer tapping and I got them where they needed to be. Then I welded them on. I didn't make a jig as per Sheldon, just rulers and calipers and magnets and my hand to hold them for tacking. The problem is that the bike I used for a reference had a little narrower space between the seat stays so my posts could have been a 1/16 or a little higher. There is a lot of slop adjustment in the cantilevers so it was OK, just if anyone else tries this just remember that your reference bike might be slightly different. I was stupid, I should have chased out the threads inside the posts but I didn't. The first side of the brake mounted without a problem, the second was a little tight. When I tried to back the cantilever mounting boult out of the tight one it broke off. I tried an easy out but this was going to break off in the post as it was twisting with no movement of the bolt. I just drilled it out and re tapped it. This might not work and I might have to put on another post, we'll see. I have been riding it around the neighborhood for 2 days and so far it works well, way better than the busted roller brake. It could still disintegrate when I take it on the trail. It will be one of my camp mountain bikes.

Early 1980s Peugeot Mountain bike. The old roller brake posts are visible down by where the tire crosses the chain stays.

 

[horsefarmer]

So is a roller brake the only kind that mounts down on the underside of the frame like that? Don't think I've ever seen one.

 

[us56456712]

So is a roller brake the only kind that mounts down on the underside of the frame like that? Don't think I've ever seen one.

Some early mountain bikes had them mounted front and rear in the standard location. Rollers went the way of the sling shot frame, Bio Pace chain wheels, big bar ends and 26 inch wheels. Lots of fads in the history of mountain bikes. I wonder if the 29 inch wheel will stick around, or will it go out like the sling shot? The proper name for them is roller cam brakes so they won't be confused with the drum rollers. Almost everyone I know calls the roller cam brakes just roller brakes. The bike shops here call them roller cam brakes. I have never seen another kind of brake mounted down on the chain stays but I bet there are other special type of bikes that have brakes mounted like that, I am just not aware of any.
This photo from the Sheldon Brown site and is just like the one I took off except the rollers were plastic and disintegrated and it was mounted down in the mud.

 

[horsefarmer]

I may have to find one of those for the Cyclepro frame or a substitute. Were they more troublesome than other brake types?

 

[Bendix]

Horsefarmer-

U-brakes were also commonly mounted under the chainstays on mid-late 80's MTBs, and have made a comeback in BMX.

The main complaint was mud, but riding in dry Colorado I always liked the XTs I had on my Diamondback Arrival. The clean top tube was kinda nice, I thought.

FWIW, rollercams can be pretty 'fiddly' to set up just right, U-brakes are typically easier.

;-)

 

[Bicycle808]

Horsefarmer-

U-brakes were also commonly mounted under the chainstays on mid-late 80's MTBs, and have made a comeback in BMX.

The main complaint was mud, but riding in dry Colorado I always liked the XTs I had on my Diamondback Arrival. The clean top tube was kinda nice, I thought.

FWIW, rollercams can be pretty 'fiddly' to set up just right, U-brakes are typically easier.

;-)

I love U-brakes, and I love to run old late-80s MTBs as touring-style/commueter bikes b/c, with chainstay mounted U-Brakes, it keeps everything out of the way for racks/bags, plus they work awesome with drop levers.

So, yeah you can braze canti-pivots on the frame if your roller cam brakes die, or you can just pull any ol' u-brake from a bmx donor bike (or pay the $20 for a new-in-box u-bake) and just run that. Whatever floats your boat.

As for whether or not 29" wheels will "die off" in terms of mtb evolution, from where i'm sitting, the 26" looks to be in far more danger, but i think the versatile 650b/27.5" wheel is looking pretty safe b/c it's got increased diameter but works better with dual-suspension geo. Personally, i'm enough of a luddite to prefer the 26", but i realize i'm probably in the minority there.

 

[us56456712]

I may have to find one of those for the Cyclepro frame or a substitute. Were they more troublesome than other brake types?

More difficult

I may have to find one of those for the Cyclepro frame or a substitute. Were they more troublesome than other brake types?

I love U-brakes, and I love to run old late-80s MTBs as touring-style/commueter bikes b/c, with chainstay mounted U-Brakes, it keeps everything out of the way for racks/bags, plus they work awesome with drop levers.

So, yeah you can braze canti-pivots on the frame if your roller cam brakes die, or you can just pull any ol' u-brake from a bmx donor bike (or pay the $20 for a new-in-box u-bake) and just run that. Whatever floats your boat.

As for whether or not 29" wheels will "die off" in terms of mtb evolution, from where i'm sitting, the 26" looks to be in far more danger, but i think the versatile 650b/27.5" wheel is looking pretty safe b/c it's got increased diameter but works better with dual-suspension geo. Personally, i'm enough of a luddite to prefer the 26", but i realize i'm probably in the minority there.

Me too, I ride 26 better, I like a small frame and small wheels. I have two spare roller cams and I might put one back on? The problem for me is mud and I mainly use this bike in the spring when our club does a typical 15 to 18 mile evening ride which is mostly on the road but will go into the trail areas that are snow free but very muddy with deep puddles. It makes a mess plus I got tired of adjusting it. We slowly transition to more trails as the surface dries out.

 

[Bicycle808]

More difficult


Me too, I ride 26 better, I like a small frame and small wheels. I have two spare roller cams and I might put one back on? The problem for me is mud and I mainly use this bike in the spring when our club does a typical 15 to 18 mile evening ride which is mostly on the road but will go into the trail areas that are snow free but very muddy with deep puddles. It makes a mess plus I got tired of adjusting it. We slowly transition to more trails as the surface dries out.

Yeah, mud can be an issue with those; I like them on mtb-to-touring/commuting conversions, personally. They moved to the chainstay brakes from cantis due to heel clearance issues, especially on smaller frames, but riders didn't like the positioning, apparently due to mud.* Of course, low-profile centerpull cantis (which suck) temporarily allowed them to move back to seatstay mounted cantis; once linear pull/"v brakes" got popular, the clearance was fine and braking improved. Nowadays, with discs, it's all a moot point.

-Rob

*I'll spare you the lecture about the evils of riding trails in muddy conditions. do what you like, unless there are signs up that specifically forbid riding the trails in the wet. I just hope that no one of the muddy riders whine about the condition of their trails when they wash out and deteriorate....

 

[us56456712]

Yeah, mud can be an issue with those; I like them on mtb-to-touring/commuting conversions, personally. They moved to the chainstay brakes from cantis due to heel clearance issues, especially on smaller frames, but riders didn't like the positioning, apparently due to mud.* Of course, low-profile centerpull cantis (which suck) temporarily allowed them to move back to seatstay mounted cantis; once linear pull/"v brakes" got popular, the clearance was fine and braking improved. Nowadays, with discs, it's all a moot point.

-Rob

*I'll spare you the lecture about the evils of riding trails in muddy conditions. do what you like, unless there are signs up that specifically forbid riding the trails in the wet. I just hope that no one of the muddy riders whine about the condition of their trails when they wash out and deteriorate....

I mostly ride our hand cut single track system. After 2 years riding these trails I still can't find my way around without a leader. Quite often we go on trails that I have never been on, and they are constantly building more. In the early spring we go on rough, washout, muddy, bolder strewn, steep two tracks (e.g. Arvo's Hill), venture into dryer rock areas and wade through the bottoms. In the spring we go bush whacking and weave around deadfalls up a hill to get an overlook of the Tilden Mine active site. Spring rides here are very muddy. A summer group ride might include a traverse part way down old mine dump pile and through an abandoned old mining town with long sets of concrete steps in the woods. It is always interesting to take someone who has not ridden on our trails out for the first time. There is a section on an easy trail that goes up a hill and snakes around the lips of 2 abandoned side by side exploratory shallow shafts. After you do it a few times you forget worrying about falling in, but for the uninitiated it can be a little surprising as the trail is narrow and if you try and put your foot down you will either tumble down the rock pile or into the shaft. Once we lost a gal and had to go back and fish her out of the pit. Last summer she was riding ahead of me and she and the bike went into a different one and she and the bike together landed sideways flat. She went straight into the pit and didn't make the left hand trail turn. She could climb out of than one. No worries here, she is an animal like the rest or our women riders. Our riding does damage the trails in the spring and fall, but the trail builders and the club management are hard core and would have a fit if anyone removed a root, rut or rock. They say that our trails are not for everyone and just deal with the areas that become rougher. The club feels that mountain biking should be about riding on unimproved terrain and I agree that this is an important aspect of the sport. We had Trail Genius make on-line interactive video maps of some of our easier trails to help get tourists to come and ride and we have been marking some trails starting last summer but the majority of them are known only to the locals. There are guided rides for 3 skill levels every Wednesday and Thursday evening year round (groomed snowbike in the winter) so anyone can ride this confusing network. Probably 30% of these trails go through caving ground from the early mines, it's a real history lesson. You would never know that you are riding through an abandoned golf course, on a street car line, through a park or by a ski jump that was abandoned 100 years ago as it is now all woods. It's really not that hard a place to ride, you just have to keep your eye on the road. The A group does ride more difficult trails and does a lot more steep climbing. I once got in the A group by accident at the breakaway point because there were 150 riders and the TV station wanted us to all leave together so they could have spectacular. They were doing stuff like stoping on hills, bunny hopping to get a better line and go. I had to push, I kept doing accidental wheelies with my weight forward on the steep parts as I don't have the skill, strength or balance. I watched a rider do an on purpose show off wheelie up the end of a steep hill that I ended out pushing up. After 15 minutes I couldn't find them. There were 5 of us C riders that got tangled up with the A group that day and we formed our own group and wondered around wondering where we were. The hard core folks (guys and gals) go out west for the winter so they can mountain bike all year. I ride the C group (the Caring Group) which does a head count, stops if you get behind, has a sweeper and someone to wait at trail junctions to make sure no one is lost. The C group has middle schoolers, some of our women, average skill level younger people and old men (60 to 71). The A and B groups don't wait for anyone. All the group rides are 2 and a half hours long. If anyone wants to try these trails, let me know. We get groups from the mid west the South and further that find our trails through social media posts or word of mouth. The riding groups can have 15 to 20 or a lot more per class in summer. There are also other MB evening group rides on other trails systems in Marquette County several times a week in the summer, but these are on machine cut trails (I live on this trail system, right out the woods at my back door). There are also scheduled group evening longer distance road rides and the women have organized a 15 mile leisurely evening city bike path ride as well. The Iron Ore Heritage trail (Rails to Trails) is 47 miles long and connects both of the Counties MB trail systems. Lots I can hook you up with. It stays light late here in the summer so you don't need lights. Too bad we are so far from anything and you don't pass through here on your way somewhere else.
Oh well, it started snowing while I was typing this. We are going to have snow every day for the next 7 days straight except one. We will be road riding for a while yet.

 

[horsefarmer]

IDK what I was thinking, the Cyclepro has seat stay brakes.