The Morgal Flyer! Aka DrHax's Steampunk Firestone Motorbike ( Front welded up.)

[DrHax]

Hello! I was knocking about this forum for awhile as a guest stopping in to learn about my 1950's firestone. Well to cut the happy story short I ran into a pole while riding behind my fiance, which in no way shape or form had any reason to why I ran into said pole. Well the fork got bent backwards and bike soon fell apart charlie chaplin slapstick style. It sat for a bit, well I have a car now, and it sat for a bit as the car replaced it as my means of transportation.


I always wanted to make a motorized bicycle, But those chinese kits are not what I want. I wish I was lucky enough to have a crazy uncle with a freaking whizzer in his shed but alas I am not plagued with such fortune. Instead I have a Firestone my fiance picked up at a garage sale for 20 bucks which I have literally ridden it until its wheels fell off. I've done research to see what has been done, what works, and what to not do so I am not coming in completely blind, but I still have questions and this is my first bike build, but I am welder by trade, and a hardcore steampunk.

 

[DrHax]

It all starts with this. A ebay "Just for giggles" offer that was accepted


Yupe thats a 1940's briggs and stratton WMB motor.

I found out after I got my offer accepted (No research just gut reaction!) it has a Wooping 1/2 hp But he reason why I put an offer was because of that kickstart. I was planning on motorizing the bike before I even got the motor. I took a gamble before hand and got a part a day earlier after doing EXTENSIVE research on it.

Yupe thats a 1977 Batavus moped fork. I got it for the price of a chinese springer front end. So it's worth the risk. That's a run down of the parts I have bought.

 

[DrHax]

If my Avatar is any indication I am building an motorcycle, and I will be treating it as such. This bike will have pedals and under MN law it will qualify and have to be registered as a moped. So that means drum brakes on at least the rear, and hopefully the front (Sent and offer on some more parts. Hopefully the acceptance train keeps on rollin'!) Lights will be required, and I am not exactly sure how I will set those up, but I am going to see about acquiring some brass headlights and sticking modern insides in them to keep the theme going strong. Think 1900's motorcycle here guys.

The tank I was going to be purchasing a 1950's brass seagull outboard tank, but dear god those went fast. I regret not jumping it. So now here I am trying to figure out the best tank options. A vintage outboard tank does seem to be a valid option.

But now here is the main questions. I can figure out how to mount the motor and the rear wheel, but getting the motor to power the rear wheel is something I am not 100% sure on. It's going to be belt driven so I was thinking of using a centrifugal clutch, but at the same time I have literally no idea on how the heck those blasted things work, and everbody has a different clutch design. So I am calling out to the briggs bike builders to give some input on the best way to approach it, as well as upgrading the motor from maybe 1/2 horses to something a tiny bit more. Maybe 1 1/2? Though that is quite of bit of weight to be putting onto a bike frame, let alone where would I sit?

 

[DrHax]

Offer got accepted on my wheels. Well hot ..... I spent a bit on the wheels but they should be well worth it instead of having to source parts individually!


Front and rear have drum brakes, and the front has a built in speedometer provision, and the rear comes equipped with the whizzer *coughs* Sorry "Cruzzer" style belt pulley. This should be a fun project.

Now I just need to figure out the best way to mount this sucker up and see about getting the drive train sorted out. I do plan on riding quite a bit so it must be easy to ride. My fiancee wants me to build a side car for it too when its all flushed out so she can ride with me Hope to look like my Avatar soon.

 

[The Renaissance Man]

Nice heavy duty wheel set. Do you have a photo of the bike?

 

[DrHax]

Not right now anyways. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow. It's a solid bike but it's been beat to heck. When I got it didn't even have a seat. The seat that is on it is from another one of my bikes. This bike has been ridden hard and I am convinced was dumped in a dumpster at one point. No head badge or anything. I was only able to identify by the fact it's frame resembles a monark and the sprocket is what lead me to believe it is a Firestone.

Glad they're heavy duty. That's what I want everything to be on this motorbike heavy duty or overkill. I am trying to figure out the best clutch design. I am wondering if I could make a transmission using the rear hub of a 90's mountain parts bike I have with its derailleur. I'll do research on this and see what my brain can draft up.

 

[Fv2]

It would be tricky to convert the mt bike hub to a trans for the engine, you'd have to change all the cogs on the cassette to match with a drive chain from the engine. A bicycle chain is to weak.

Plus if you're going belt drive that's a whole new snake pit, trying to make a belted cassette.

There are multi speed centrifugal drivetrains on some mopeds, but if you wanted to go that route it'd be cheaper to buy the moped and use its parts.

 

[DrHax]

I was thinking along the lines of taking the hub mounting it so it attaches to a pulley and then have the output drive of the motor have a belt going to a sprocket. The bicycle chain would need to be shortened or a heavier duty bicycle chain acquired and shortened because I would encase the sprocket and hub gears in a welded up enclosure so that way if the chain was thrown at least the damage would be contained. The transmission would simply be the rear axle hub's gears and output going to the wheel belt with the engine input going to another sprocket attached to a pulley. The derailleur would be mounted in there as well to shift through the gears. I am not 100 percent sure on the output side of the motor vs the wheels belt drive, but either way making a transmission unit would solve that. If there is an input and output error.

 

[Fv2]

Ok, we're thinking two different methods. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with.

 

[DrHax]

Yes, I am thinking more along the lines of a self contained chain driven transmission, I am curious though if I would need to have a clutch lever used so you press it would disengage the engine side belt allow you chain gears and you re-engage the drive belt hopefully derailing the chain successfully to the new gear. I only bring this up since I am worried about the engines output being too much for the derailleur to handle. I'll draft up a sketch of my idea.

 

[DrHax]

Here's a thirty second MS paint sketch of my idea after doing a few google image searches on mountain rear wheels. From what I can see the derailleur is usually mounted to the mountain frame where the rear hub is bolted down. This is a positive since I could actually just cut that section out of the mountain bike and then weld it into the enclosure. The top down view is hypothetically if the output of the engine is on the opposite side of the wheel input.

In this case the transmission unit would mount around the seat post with the rear hub behind it actually needing to be pretty close to the rear wheel. Somebody has actually done something similar to make a 2 speed gearbox for a chinese motor using a similar concept. However they are using a strictly chain based system so the torque of the engine keeps on throwing the chain due to there being a lack of tension. In this enclosed system the tension of the belts should have little to no effect on the chains. (In theory) The weakest link of this system I feel could be the derailleur itself as that would be the part which is most fragile and the reason why I theorize a clutch lever would be required in order to allow it to shift.

This is an idea I have in my head because an automatic centrifugal clutch costs about the same as I paid for the wheels while the wheels are something I can not easily fabricate, and it is cheaper for me to purchase them outright then acquire the parts to make them (Rims+drum hubs+ spokes+ whizzer pulley hub+ speedometer attachment+ tubes and tires) Also I lack the general knowledge/ confidence to assemble such components.

The gearbox however is something I feel needs to be done on my own. Mainly because if a farm boy in the 1940's or 21 year old William S. Harley in 1904 can come up with ideas for such a system I feel I can too. (I have a knack for designing stuff.) Also this build is something a bit of a blast from the past.Yes it is fair cheaper to purchase a chinese 4 stroke kit and slap it onto my bike, but I actually want something that when people see it buzzing down the road they actually question if it was made in the 1910's or 1920's. This project is something I have had a desire to do for quite awhile, but I never had the funds, access to resources or the donor bike to do so (my 1962 tiger schwinn is way too nice to attempt this on. The fire stone beater my fiance bought for me with the intention of going mental with it.

 

[Fv2]

I'll be following this build.
Those Chinese engines are nice, as far as price and simplicity. But I'd prefer a Briggs or something like this.

And if you haven't already seen it, look for Maytag Flyer on YouTube. It's built from an old kick start washing machine engine.

 

[Fv2]

Here it is


And a build thread for it.
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=36691

Might give you some ideas.

 

[DrHax]

I know of that bike. The man who made it is a volksrodder (Just like me). So I saw his build thread on that site. It was the seed that started this all Its why I was looking at washing machine motors. It's going to be fun seeing the parts come in. Oh that poor mail man

 

[DrHax]

PICTURE TIME!

Finally got some pictures of my firestone! And the first part arrived! I could not believe it arrived yesterday and nobody told me! Why doesn't anybody tell me anything around here!




Now for the part!
The moped fork arrived. Turns out it will work! How is that for a mock up?

This build is going to be so fun! I just hope the motor gets shipped soon.

 

[DrHax]

screw mock up I went for it! Tally ho!


It was way too wide for my tiger schwinn's wheel so onto Loaner wheel number 2!
This is the 24inch wheel that came from my OCC chopper schwinn. I was quite surprised how well it all fits together. The moped fork was able to use the original bearings and such! I picked out this fork because of its two grease fittings which means that the suspension is serviceable!

I do love how it looks

 

[DrHax]

I checked out the MTN bike I got and it is roached. It was a cheapy to begin with so it is fried. However, I still want a transmission I can shift.

So Here's my idea after doing some research and speculation about internal 3 speed hubs, I found a few NOS 3 speed internal hubs with twist grip shifters on ebay, if I were to acquire one, I am wondering if I could simply attach pulleys to the hub and the input side and use it as a transmission. Thoughts?

 

[DrHax]

I did some research and somebody is actually using a 3 speed hub with a friction drive roller set up! Top speed of 34 mph

While this got me thinking of a much simpler solution to my transmission idea in a similar fashion. I was thinking of ways of mounting a sprocket on both ends.. chains to pulleys and other over the top nonsense! While this is infact a steampunk build, I do not want a Rube Goldberg transmission.

Instead my head came up with an idea inspired from this one. Use the hub as a pulley! So using the normal drive sprocket for the hub attached to the briggs motor, with the belt going to the whiz-*Ahem* cruzzer wheel! This would allow me a shifting transmission that is also proven to be reliable by other mania- I mean enthusiasts!

I got a plan now for a transmission. Now I just need to sort out a tank and and a clutch system!

 

[DrHax]

Here is the hub I am thinking about purchasing.

it is a NOS sears sturmey archer austrian knock off, which from what I gather with some research is indentical to the actual sturmey archer hubs.
Here's a close up of the hub in the ad.

With my pulley idea the raised up centre is an actual plus because that would keep the belt in place.
Pro's NEW, groved hub would work great as a pulley, and parts would be easy to find.
Con's its not a real british hub, and its price.

My other option is a shimano 333 hub. it is used and cheaper, and it comes with both grips, but these hubs are a mixed bag. People like them. hate them say they're garbage and unreliable.

Pro's way cheaper and has a second grip, claimed to work fine.
Con's Used and pulled off an unknown bike, Hub reputation. No groves so might not make a good pulley.

I have no idea guys. I want a twist shifter like these guys have. That older style is what I want for the build. I do not like the thumb or modern MTN bike twist shifter (ugly black plastic does not go well with this build.)

 

[DrHax]

I went with the shimano hub, mainly because the one in the 34mph bike is a shimano hub. It's cheaper, and once I get the system in place and operational I could always upgrade.