The Rock Rat

Discussion in 'BUILDS' started by MattiThundrrr, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    I'm thinking I've found the direction I'd like to take. Have a look at what's inspiring me today:
    trek-970-1989-41393_1 (1).jpg
    Check out the sweet Nitro Bullmoose style bar. It's the clamp for the threadless headset too! That bar is only an option if I can't fix the shock. I have two other pics of different but similar bikes, forum says they're too large to upload.

    PS that bar ain't cheap! Probably cheaper to find an original Richey! Lol
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  2. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    Figgered it out. I think! Screen_Shot_2018-12-03_at_5.35.29_PM_1024x1024~3.png
    Screen_Shot_2018-06-10_at_2.04.27_PM_1024x1024~3.png
    I want a shorter stem, I like that style, and the bars I already have are like low rise bmx. I might even go with friction shifters. Haven't used those since before GRIPSHIFT was a thing!
     
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  3. horsefarmer

    horsefarmer

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    I like the look!
    [​IMG]
    On my build off 13 entry, I used a old SunTour thumb shifter to replace the cheesy plastic stocker. Better shifting and looks.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    Do I need to look for a specific type/range of motion to be able to shift through seven speeds, or will any old unit work? Do I need to think about compatibility with my (hahaha) modern 1990s derailleur?
     
  5. horsefarmer

    horsefarmer

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    I believe any friction shifter will work with any derailleur. It's only the positron type, click shift or other shifters with numbered positions that work with only specific derailleurs.
     
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  6. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    You Always Hurt the One You Love...
    I don't even have words. Look what I've done to my baby IMG_20191122_111042830.jpg IMG_20191122_102707912.jpg IMG_20191125_131639061.jpg
     
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  7. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    Boom! Blew it all apart today! Used up a good portion of my best swears in the process! I don't think I broke or lost anything (yet), and it seems possible that I might even be able to get it back together in the correct order! IMG_20191128_122333462.jpg IMG_20191128_134947174.jpg IMG_20191128_135044611.jpg
    I think I'm addicted to 3 in 1 now, it's almost as delicious as Simple Green!
     
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  8. SpikeFC

    SpikeFC

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    Hm... that's not the best idea... STX was an MTB groupset, and Deore LX was a trekking groupset. Personally I'm not a fan of mixing groupsets. There lies your problem with the rear derailleur. You can solve it in two ways:

    1. Change the whole groupset to STX (may be difficult since it's a groupset from 1996, and it used cantilever brakes)
    2. Change everything to something more modern like - but that also means a new wheelset since even the lower groups are for 8-9 gear cassetes.
     
  9. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    The STX and Deore worked well together for over twenty years! They just stopped playing nice in the last year or so
     
  10. Duchess

    Duchess

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    I've done a bunch of screwing around with weird shifters and such and friction works with anything where the indexing isn't controlled by the derailleur (I've never encountered the latter, though I'm sure someone's made one). The only concerns are that the friction shifter can pull enough cable (most likely it does) and your derailleur needs to allow enough travel for your cassette. For instance, if you go from a cassette that's 11-26 or something to 11-36, you'll almost definitely need a longer cage derailleur for the bigger sprocket. If you want to use indexing shifters, they have to index to the same spacing as the cassette requires. You'd have to look it up, but I think the 7- and 8-speed Shimano cassettes have the same spacing, so an 8-speed shifter on a 7-speed rear will work (or a 7-speed on an 8 cassette, but you'll have to not use one of the sprockets), but a 9-speed has the sprockets closer together, so they're not interchangeable. I could be wrong about the specifics of the relative spacing of those cassettes, but the idea is right. A big thing is reducing the friction in the cable housing by using as large radius as possible. I don't know why it isn't more popular, but I prefer to cross-cable where the housing goes from one side of the handlebar across the headtube to the opposite side's housing stop instead of using the cable stop on the same side as its shifter. The cables will cross each other under the down tube, but they'll barely touch and it's a much smoother curve in the housing from the handlebar with the added benefit of less flopping around. Of course, this only works when the cable stops are on the underside of the downtube.
     
  11. horsefarmer

    horsefarmer

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    @Duchess, Speaking of weird shifting combos, what about the front derailleur? I recently converted an old 10 speed without any drivetrain to a 15 speed as that's all I had for chainsets were 3 ring. Then I realized I needed a different front derailleur for the 3 rings with more travel. Now it seems the original front friction shifter doesn't have enough travel to shift the chain thru all 3 rings!
    All Shimano except for SunTour friction shifters. :eek:
     
  12. Duchess

    Duchess

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    You'd have to measure how much cable needs to be pulled for the full range of motion you need and make sure the shifter has at least that much. There's usually somewhere around 270* or more of rotation on the levers, so it's just a matter of the diameter being large enough. If you don't have enough cable pull from the lever because it's too small or can't mount them in a way that lets you increase the angle of rotation, you could see if you can figure out a way to increase the diameter of the lever's cable trough to pull more or make your own lever to suit. I have SunTours working with an ancient 3x7 Shimano. My setup allows for about 120* of rotation, which is what I need for this application, though I could have designed it for more if I needed to. Of course, that would have been lousy ergonomically, but I might have come up with a different solution in that case.
     
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  13. SpikeFC

    SpikeFC

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    [​IMG]
    Shimano Positron Indexed 5 Speed Derailleur. Operated by a non indexed shifter with a steel wire instead of cable. Very cool stuff from the 70's.

    Yes, those "frankenstein" systems work perfectly when new. I see a lot of them since I started a full-time job in a bicycle workshop (even new bikes, like a combo shifters-Altus, front derailleur-Alivio, rear derailleur-Deore XT), but only when new. When something starts to wear (like shifter for example) and everything won't even try to work. A week or so ago there was a guy who had the same problem as you - whole bike on Deore from group M591, except of the rear derailleur - an SLX M622. Everything from year circa 2012. The derailleur wouldn't want to work with the Deore shifter. New cable? Nah. New outer casing? Nah. New shifter? Nah. The only solution for the problem was to order a new rear derailleur from the group Deore M591.

    On the other hand I have a client who has a complete set of Deore XT from about 2010. The whole set made +- 38000 miles of heavy beating, and it fails to shift properly cause the shifter is used up. But still the problem is that you have to "overpush" when shifting up, not that the derailleur shifts like it has a mind of it's own skipping two or more gears.
     
  14. horsefarmer

    horsefarmer

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    Yep, lousy ergonomics pretty much sums it up. :headbang:
    I have to push my right thumb at a crazy angle forward and still can't get it up on the large sprocket. "overpush" really describes my problem.
    I'm going to adjust the cable / stops and see if I can get 10 speeds using middle and large rings. Thanks!
     
  15. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    Funny that Spike suggested the full STX swap, and this pops up: ad_1575037971019.jpg Full STX package, unfortunately, it's a 13.5" frame, so I'd likely have to scrap it. Pretty much everything would be a good upgrade for the Rat.
     
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  16. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    So the shock rebuild went pretty much as expected. The instructions I have clearly state "WARNING: DO NOT FORCE DAMPING ADJUSTER KNOB TO TURN WHEN
    INSTALLING AIR CAP. THE SOCKET OR BOX WRENCH MUST NOT GRAB
    ADJUSTER KNOB WHEN INSTALLING AIR CAP OR THE ADJUSTER ROD
    WILL BE DAMAGED."
    Guess what I might have done? If I did, I probably lost damper adjustment. The rod is threaded into the base of the damper, and this threading opens up or closes the passageway, restricting oil flow. U had to make shims to get it positioned solidly in the tube, and I don't know if it'll close up anymore.
     
  17. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    Baby's getting new shoes.
    And some steel.
     
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  18. JaxRhapsody

    JaxRhapsody

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    Most shimano groups interchange. I usually put trigger shifters on any bike that has gripshifts and whatever 7speed wheel if it lacks it. Most of the trigger shifters(or mtb brifters I sometimes call them) that I get are usually XT, Altus or Tourney, the wheels usually end up being walmart megarange or nonlabel shimano.
     
  19. JaxRhapsody

    JaxRhapsody

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    I have those same flame tread tires on my high sierra, came off a cranbrook, awesome tires. They handled better than the bmx style tires it originally had on it. I'd put a sealed bb in it to save a future headach. I'm more in to what I call streetfighter style with a rigid fork, street tires and fast gearing.
     
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  20. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr

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    If the shock rebuild doesn't work out, it'll go rigid.
     

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