650b wheels

[mornview]

Just looking for a little clarification on 650b wheels; the info out there is so confusing, and even my LBS's can't seem to give me a straight answer. So let me just make sure I have it straight:

650A (ISO 590) wheels are my favorite size wheels. I don't know if it's just because they happen to be on my favorite bikes, but I have never enjoyed riding a 26" or 700c bike as much as my 650A's. I have always said that if I could just get a 650A bike with fat tires for winter I would be set.

Now, am I understanding this correctly - 650B wheels have rims that are smaller in diameter, however, the actual outside diameter of the wheel (with a fully inflated tire) will be the same as a 650A wheel? I'm just confused on this point because the marketing word for 650B is "27 1/2". I know my 650A's don't measure 27 1/2. Moreover, 650B Grand Bois Hetres look much smaller in diameter than your average 650B knobby MTB tires.

I plan on test riding some 650B bikes at the LBS, I just want to get some of my facts straight first. If 650B is in fact the wheel size I've been looking for, I've got my sights set on the Nashbar Bee's Knees. That thing looks like a blast.

Thanks!

 

[Bicycle808]

Ok, things gonna get weird... but!

-650a is AKA EA3 aka 26x1 3/8" aka 590.... these are almost ALWAYS going to be 37mmx590mm, and the outside diameter of that tire/rim combo is around 26".... (more like 26 1/8"), which is almost exactly the same as a 23mmx622 or a 54mmx559..... or a 42mmx584, which is a common 650b tire size. (650b= 26x1 1/2" aka 584....)

The cool thing about 650b is that, unlike the 650a, you can actually get a lot of variation in terms of tread and width for the tires. You can get fast, skinny 32mm tires for the road, and you can get some big ol' 2.8" knobbies for your 27.5 Plus mtb, and everything in between. The "27.5" designation applies, really, to 650b rims running <2" wide knobbies, and it's mtb-speak that indicates the size fits right between 26" and 29" mtbs. They're all running the 584 bead-seat diameter.... If you like a variety of choices, the 650b is only 6mm less in diameter than the 650a, but you can run almost any type of tire imaginable on them.... fast road stuff, touring road stuff, fat mtb knobbies, skinny cyclocross knobbies, Schwalbe even makes a 2.4" balloon-style tire, called the Super Moto-X for 650b.

All that being said, if you love 590, you can get the Schwalbe Marathin tire in a 44x590 size. These tires are very tough, long-wearing, and flat-resistant.... and they got a l'il more cushion for the pushin' than a standard 37mm 590.... and that'd be a lot cheaper than going the 650b route.

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

Confusion would disappear if they would just call them 590's or 584's instead of 650's. Tires are incompatible between them. Crazy that this rim size, since so close in size anyway, can't come to a single number in between that would clear up this confusion, allowing for more diverse tire designs to decide the final ride characteristics....... Makes too much sense though!

 

[Duchess]

Good rule of thumb is to always use ISO sizing as it's the only one that's consistent and makes sense. I think they keep tire and wheel sizing (as well as some pointless changes to other parts in the name of "upgrades" that would be of no discernible improvement were it not for the placebo effect and that people don't want to admit they wasted their money) confusing to discourage people from working on an otherwise simple machine themselves.

 

[Bicycle808]

I'm a huge fan of using the etrto/ISO designations for bike tires, but I also kind of enjoy the history behind any given size's aliases. All of these goofy sizes weren't borne from marketing strategies; they were all extant during a time when standards were more regional than global. 584 is certainly enjoying a resurgence due to marketing forces, but the tire size itself existed before the advent of mass media. 590s existed before mass media too, but they've never enjoyed a second coming via any fads or contemporary marketing campaigns. The thing that sets the 590s apart is that, on a global scale, they've never quite become obsolete. So many bikes were sold that take 590s stock, and many of these bikes were danged near indestructible. There's evidence that size may well live forever, even if it never becomes "cool" again.

 

[BARTO]

You guys sound like my aeronautical engineer friends

 

[horsefarmer]

You guys sound like my aeronautical engineer friends

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

You guys sound like my aeronautical engineer friends

Ha! This dumb problem goes away if only a few rim diameters were available. Each diameter could come in three different widths, then you could focus on multiple tire designs for surface conditions or terrain you ride in that rim diameter&width. I won't hold my breath waiting for a miracle.

 

[BARTO]

Horsefarmer, that is stupid funny, I'm still laughing....I have a friend (yes, an aeronautical engineer) who would so do that. I always know when he's around because he puts black tape mustaches and eyebrows on my family photos on my desk...been doing it for 20 years

 

[greenephantom]

650B / 27.5", just think of it as the mountain bike wheel between the 26" and the 29ers.

The confusing thing is that they use different terms for the same wheel size depending on usage.

The 584 size is called 650B when used on road and touring bikes. The 584 size is called 27.5 when used on mountain bikes. (And if you wanna get retro about it, the 584 size is also a Schwinn 26" S-4, also known as a 26 x 1 1/2".)

Cheers, Geoff

 

[horsefarmer]

Ha! This dumb problem goes away if only a few rim diameters were available. Each diameter could come in three different widths, then you could focus on multiple tire designs for surface conditions or terrain you ride in that rim diameter&width. I won't hold my breath waiting for a miracle.

I always thought the same about car filters - I have a collection of at least 10 oil filters for vehicles I no longer own - physically close in dimensions to my current vehicles but not gonna fit!

 

[Bicycle808]

650B / 27.5", just think of it as the mountain bike wheel between the 26" and the 29ers.

The confusing thing is that they use different terms for the same wheel size depending on usage.

The 584 size is called 650B when used on road and touring bikes. The 584 size is called 27.5 when used on mountain bikes. (And if you wanna get retro about it, the 584 size is also a Schwinn 26" S-4, also known as a 26 x 1 1/2".)

Cheers, Geoff

Not to pick at nits, but 584 mountain rims/tires are sometimes referred to as "650B", and sometimes as 27.5".... Some of the early 584-wheeledMTBs had names that alluded to the wheel side (eg, the Soma B-Side....) But, yeah, you rarely see 584s with road treads being marketed as 27.5", mostly b/c they're typically quite a bit smaller in terms of overall diameter. (Notable exception is the Schwalbe Big Ben, which is a 2" wide tire, basically a cruiser tire.... no knobs, though...)

Weird b/c a 29er is just a 700c (622) with a tire >2" wide...but I don't think I've seen any 29er products marketed as 700c.... not since the Willitts days, anyway.

 

[mornview]

Ok, things gonna get weird... but!

-650a is AKA EA3 aka 26x1 3/8" aka 590.... these are almost ALWAYS going to be 37mmx590mm, and the outside diameter of that tire/rim combo is around 26".... (more like 26 1/8"), which is almost exactly the same as a 23mmx622 or a 54mmx559..... or a 42mmx584, which is a common 650b tire size. (650b= 26x1 1/2" aka 584....)

The cool thing about 650b is that, unlike the 650a, you can actually get a lot of variation in terms of tread and width for the tires. You can get fast, skinny 32mm tires for the road, and you can get some big ol' 2.8" knobbies for your 27.5 Plus mtb, and everything in between. The "27.5" designation applies, really, to 650b rims running <2" wide knobbies, and it's mtb-speak that indicates the size fits right between 26" and 29" mtbs. They're all running the 584 bead-seat diameter.... If you like a variety of choices, the 650b is only 6mm less in diameter than the 650a, but you can run almost any type of tire imaginable on them.... fast road stuff, touring road stuff, fat mtb knobbies, skinny cyclocross knobbies, Schwalbe even makes a 2.4" balloon-style tire, called the Super Moto-X for 650b.

All that being said, if you love 590, you can get the Schwalbe Marathin tire in a 44x590 size. These tires are very tough, long-wearing, and flat-resistant.... and they got a l'il more cushion for the pushin' than a standard 37mm 590.... and that'd be a lot cheaper than going the 650b route.

Thanks, this is exactly the answer I needed. I really can't resist at least trying out 650B, though; if a test ride at a LBS turns out positive, that Nashbar Bees Knees might just be in my future.
A *HUGE* thanks for pointing out those Schwalbe 590's, too. I really had just given up thinking there were any even semi-wide 590's. The old 37mm's leave just a little to be desired when touring on certain surfaces.

 

[mornview]

Good rule of thumb is to always use ISO sizing as it's the only one that's consistent and makes sense. I think they keep tire and wheel sizing (as well as some pointless changes to other parts in the name of "upgrades" that would be of no discernible improvement were it not for the placebo effect and that people don't want to admit they wasted their money) confusing to discourage people from working on an otherwise simple machine themselves.

This is painfully true. Sometimes I'll finish up a build, and start thinking to myself that it wasn't really that much of an accomplishment (compared to, say, building a car or something), but then I remember just how much trivial information I had to know just to accomplish said build .

 

[low-n-slow]

Hey you guys,

I've recently got the chance to get a second pair of Sachs aluminium wheels like the 24 inch in my Fluid, but...

... the ones I bought are 650A wheels and as mentioned before in this thread it is kind of hard to find some nice tires for this size. I therefore wonder if anybody tried to put some 650B tires on 650A wheels? I'm pretty sure that it is possible by force. But might this be a solution to last long?

Best regards Arndt

 

[Bicycle808]

Hey you guys,

I've recently got the chance to get a second pair of Sachs aluminium wheels like the 24 inch in my Fluid, but...

... the ones I bought are 650A wheels and as mentioned before in this thread it is kind of hard to find some nice tires for this size. I therefore wonder if anybody tried to put some 650B tires on 650A wheels? I'm pretty sure that it is possible by force. But might this be a solution to last long?

Best regards Arndt

BITD, when the "elegant" fake-French bicycle LARPists were first getting into 650b, they were buying Sun CR18s in the 590 size b/c they thought it was a 650b, and they were bloodying their knuckles getting them on, but apparently it's possible. It's also very, very stupid, considering that you can get a lot of tires in the 590 size, including semi-knobbies... (I'm guessing you're in Europe; selection for 590 rubber seems to be even better in Europe...)

http://www.amazon.com/Kenda-Cross-Knobby-Tire-Wire/dp/B00DXZLY7C

 

[1oldbikelover]

Thanks, this is exactly the answer I needed. I really can't resist at least trying out 650B, though; if a test ride at a LBS turns out positive, that Nashbar Bees Knees might just be in my future.
A *HUGE* thanks for pointing out those Schwalbe 590's, too. I really had just given up thinking there were any even semi-wide 590's. The old 37mm's leave just a little to be desired when touring on certain surfaces.

Being a California boy and riding Intense now, I am leaning toward the Intense Tracer 275 and not going to think too much about my wheel size but more about enjoying the single track instead!

 

[Bicycle808]

Being a California boy and riding Intense now, I am leaning toward the Intense Tracer 275 and not going to think too much about my wheel size but more about enjoying the single track instead!

Best philosophy on riding trails, i suspect.... but i'm the type of nerd who gets hung up more on the bike than the ride, too often. Once I get "in the zone", however, i'm cured of that. But i spend the rest of the day worrying about what ratio i should've been running, etc....

 

[1oldbikelover]

Best philosophy on riding trails, i suspect.... but i'm the type of nerd who gets hung up more on the bike than the ride, too often. Once I get "in the zone", however, i'm cured of that. But i spend the rest of the day worrying about what ratio i should've been running, etc....

A good day of mountain biking is: no broken bike parts and more importantly, no broken bones! Ride hard but know your limitations.......IntenseRay