This old pepper mill

Discussion in 'ROAD & TOURING BIKES' started by peejus, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. peejus

    peejus

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    Alright folks... so, I found this old peugot uo-8 rusting away in the breweries storage warehouse. Turns out it belonged to our fearless leader and had no use for it.
    So it came home with me.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see.. it was kinda converted into a European city commuter style.
    The front derailleur is gone, the rear is not original as far as I can tell.
    The stem and handle bars are obviously not original.
    In fact, the Allen keyed stem bolt is standard and not metric and the whole thing seems kind of banged into place.

    Rear wheel is good but the gear cluster seems to wobble a bit, not apparent under load, just coasting.
    Missing a spoke, but otherwise true.
    Front wheel is banged up with a wobble.

    Cottered crank set seems fine though.
    Brakes are original and work well.

    So far I've repacked all the bearings except the bottom bracket, lubed up the chain, and slapped some not as dry rotted tires and new tubes on it.

    Really, I had to cut the old tires off it.

    Took it around the block a few times today and it rides fairly nice!

    So... I'm looking for hints, and suggestions about how I should proceed with this bike..

    I pretty much want to not touch the patina of the frame.. it's in good condition and I think it has a lot of character as is..

    I'm torn between having the wheels rebuilt and made true, or, investing in a basic 700c alloy wheel set.

    I would like to return the handlebars to a original style set of drop bars and brake levers. But I think that is going to imply a new stem as well. This one is sitting about 1/4 inch under the minimum mark.

    As for the bottom bracket.. as is, it seems fine, but if I'm replacing the wheel set and rear gear cluster, I might as well replace and modernize the BB as well right?
    I understand the Velo orange is the way to go here?

    Money IS an object, so it will be a casual build with free time and free money

    As to the name of this thread? I'm sure most of you know that peugot started out as a manufacturer of peppermills.. I belive the original Peugeot family is still in that buisness.

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  2. ifitsfreeitsforme

    ifitsfreeitsforme

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    Yes I believe VO is only option for BB. Will be interesting to see how far you go with it. I kind of like the city bike conversion with single chain ring.


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  3. peejus

    peejus

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    Oh, its still a double chain ring! It just doesn't have a way of switching gears.
    I don't mind the city bike stuff so much. But I kinda want that on a bike that was meant for that... Like that Holland look back there.
    But I'm thinking about putting fenders and a rack on this one for a high performance city bike thing

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  4. ifitsfreeitsforme

    ifitsfreeitsforme

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    Fenders are great too. Metal or wood?


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  5. deorman

    deorman

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    If your front wheel's not right, get a spoke wrench (cheap) and try to straighten it out. Just about any 2 ring deraileaur will work, as long as the frame clamp is for the correct seatpost diameter.
    http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#tensioning
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
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  6. peejus

    peejus

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    I've been kinda looking for fenders that I think look "period correct, but I've also been thinking about the home made, bent plywood fender experiment as well.

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  7. peejus

    peejus

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    Yup, I've done a decent job in the past with other bent rims, and spotting it at the break shoes. I really need to pick up a trueing jig. Thing is, all the spokes are rusted over and the rear is missing one, so, if I retain the wheels, I think I'll hand them over to the LBS for a full do-over with the lacing.



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  8. us56456712

    us56456712

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    I would keep the 3 piece cottered crank. It's probably a Nevar. The 3 piece cottered crank was used on a lot of old Peugeots and to me is kind of a signature and adds to the vintage look. I can't see the condition but these usually polish up nice. You won't save a lot of weight on this bike anyway by going to an alloy cotterless and you will have a lot of fussing to get it to work. It is already heavy and has wider touring rims. Your original front rim might be a steel Rigida. It could also have an alloy Rigida front rim, I have seen both on this type of Peugeot. The front hub looks like a Normandy large flange hub, keep that. Does it have Mafac brakes? Some had Mafac and some Shimano. Check the seatpost and gooseneck to make sure you can easily get replacements . Peugeot sizes are weird. My seatpost was a hair smaller than 25mm but not 24mm. I ground out the seat tube with a drum sander made from an old Chicago Schwinn seat post with the 80 grit held on with contact cement. I then used my drum brake cylinder hone to finish it. It was weird as the seat post tube ID was 25mm but there was an internal collar at the clamp that was a little smaller. This is the part I reamed and honed out. I think the next big bike thing to hit here in the USA will be vintage road bike rides. They have been big in Europe for decades. There are already a few here and you need a bike built sometime after the 80s (I can't remember if the cut off is 1980 or 1985) to ride in one of these events. You also need shifters on the down tube. I can't see your head badge but by the decal set it looks like it might be a 1977 or 78? It also has a square reflector which were used in the late 70 and 80s. It might be older as I can't see the design very well on the down tube striping by the Peugeot labeling. I would get dropped road bars, brake levers, seat, new cables & chain, rear wheel, gear cluster and down tube shifters. The paint looks pretty good except on the inside of the drive side chain stay. The only color I will touch up on a bike is white, you really can't see it. I use appliance enamel, but I would just do the chain stay. After a good cleaning I would rub the frame with Penetrol a drying oil that is used in marine applications to help prevent rust in the chips and scratches. This arrests more rust form forming, it dries clear and semigloss overnight and I only reapply it every 2 years. I get it in the paint department at the local hardware store. If you go with 700c you will have different hubs, unless you build them yourself using your existing hubs and then you will need custom spokes. New hubs won't fit in the dropouts. Your brakes might not fit, with 700c but they probably could be adjusted to fit. Before you buy anything make sure you can get it apart. I have had a 1960 French bike and a 1977 French bike. Both had loose balls in the headset and bottom bracket. Put a towel under it when you take it apart to keep from loosing the balls when they fall out and bounce under stuff to hide. On he Peugeot I am working on now the bottom bracket had 3 missing bearing from someones else's rebuild. I find buying a donor bike to be cheaper than buying parts. I would look for an old Fuji or some other inexpensive Japanese road bike to use as a parts donor. You can usually find these at a reasonable price. I would keep the front 27 inch wheel and look for a donor with a good rear 27 inch wheel. Make sure your donor bike has hubs that will fit in the Peugeot dropouts. Thats a very cool bike with a lot of potential. I think every freewheel I have ever owned wobbled and i have probably owned over 100 bikes with a freewheel. Don't worry about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
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  9. peejus

    peejus

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    Thanks for the advice!
    Yeah, most of the bike is original. Including the rim brakes. I like center pulls like that anyways.
    I've been doing a bit of work here and there as the weather has permitted.
    I got most of the bend out of the front rim, got the axle bearings repacked. But if I keep them, and I do like them, they will have to be professionally rebuilt and trued.
    I haven't been able to get the cotter pin out of the crank yet to inspect and repack those bearings yet. It just needs a lot of PB break and time with a blow torch.
    Seat tube seems original and free and I've ordered a period appropriate seat.

    As for the handlebars. . I got the quill out and have been looking at my options. I'm mostly leaning towards just machining this one to fit.
    I'm thinking about just flipping over the mustache handle bars as I kinda like how it looks, like a set of squashed drop bars. New levers, and some nice cork tape.
    I think the shifters can be relocated to the down tube.



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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  10. peejus

    peejus

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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  11. us56456712

    us56456712

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    Let me know how the relocation of the shifters works out, I want to try that on another bike. Try to get the cotter pin out by putting a socket over the cotter and put it in a vice to drive it out. Use the nut as the pressure point, don't press on the direct end of the cotter. If that doesn't work and all else fails, carefully center punch the cotter and drill out the center, being careful not to drill into the crank. Use a drill bit smaller than the cotter pin to hollow it out. It will come right out. Those are the MAFAC "Racer" brakes, which are better than the other center pull MAFAC brakes. They are more powerful than regular center pull brakes because the ends of the brake where the pads attach are not made of twisted metal. When the brake jaws are twisted so the brake pads can be directly mounted the jaws flex when brake pressure is applied and some of the force that could be used for braking goes into the metal flex. The MAFAC "Racer" brakes have a different way of mounting the pads that helps minimize this flex. Cool brakes that are sought after. MAFAC also made a less desirable center pull that didn't have this design, you are lucky your bike has Racer brakes. I think the flipped bars would look good. I once filed down an alloy gooseneck to fit in a French steer tube. This was in the 60s and it took awhile, but I was young and strong. I wasn't too careful so it looked bad but it worked. There are those who will tell you to never do this but I had no problem, even on the one century ride I took the bike on. I am a small light person though. According to this site yours is a 1970 to 1972 Type II. http://cyclespeugeot.com/ModelID.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
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  12. peejus

    peejus

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    Good to know that about the brakes, thanks!

    Unfortunately, the band on the shifter levers is too narrow for mounting on the tube it's meant for quill mounting.

    The machining on the quill progresses and can be inserted halfway it's length in the neck tube now, but with how I have the handlebars mounted I'm finding that it's best for me to keep it high. I'm 6'6 and having that low is rather uncomfortable.

    I did flip the bars and they look good and are functional. I find I can still ride the hoods as well. I ordered a matching pair of vintage non aero levers.

    Thanks for reminding me about the press method of removing the cotter pin. And yeah, never bang on the threads. Being french, this bike has enough strange things going on to have to try and hunt down a new cotter pin as well.

    I found some all white tires on Ebay that look as though they'll add a nice overall look to the bike.

    Up next after rebuild, will be tear down and clean and send off the rims for repair and rebuilding.

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  13. us56456712

    us56456712

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    I made cotter pins before out of others that were too big. It's easy. Sheldon Brown has the info on how to do this. The only thing I did different was to put them in my vice, parallel with the jaws, and filed them down using the vice jaws to keep it flat and angled the same. I did this several times until it was right. I used an old body file which is sort of like a plane so it went fast.
     
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  14. peejus

    peejus

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    Messing around with these pins... good lord..I'm fairly certain that the previous owner took over sized pins and rammed them home..
    Considering I belive my boss, dear fearless leader, has been the sole owner of this bike, I feel confident with my assessment.

    He's a bit of a square peg In a round hole sort of fellow.

    So the bike will be traveling back to the brewery in the morning for a date with the heavy tools in the workshop.

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  15. us56456712

    us56456712

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    They can be incredibly stuck, even if they are the right pins. You wonder how water could get in there to rust weld them. On several occasions I used a steel plate with a hole drilled in it to support the bearings and hammered the pin out. If it is real stuck this won't work and you are likely to dent the tubing or crank arm. I wouldn't try this. When all else fails drilling the pins hollow works like a charm, then you might have to make your own cotters, but that is easy. Just file one until it matches the ones you drilled out. It will fit all the way into the hole. If the pins are the wrong size they should protrude out further or go in too far. Also the crank will creak when peddling if the pins are not right. Use a light coat of grease when pressing them in. There is an old time tool that looks like a giant lock cutter for inserting and removing these cotters, but they are rare now a days. Some bike shops or a bike co-op might have them and this will remove them. I can't even find a picture of one on the net.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
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  16. peejus

    peejus

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    Well, I got the left pin out!

    It was a bit of an adventure as I had to use a bench vice to do so.
    Bearings went flying, but all were recovered.
    The pins will have to be replaced, and I'll probably end up having to drill out the one on the drive side.. it's firmly jammed in there, but it's missing it's lock nut anyways.

    So now the bike is fully disassembled. And I'm mulling over my options. Besides the 40+ years of weathering, the bike itself is in decent mechanical condition and it's mostly a matter of cleaning everything thing up.
    I took the front wheel to one of the LBS's for an estimate and the quote I got was $50 for labor, and $3 per spoke..
    That sounds a little ridiculous, and new alloy wheels will cost around $35 each.
    I tested the new wheels and they will fit.

    I have to keep reminding myself that it's a basic bike boom era mount and it's not worth sinking a great deal of money into it.

    When it comes to paint, well.. this paint job is shot, the decals are worn and faded and the whole thing looks rather dingy. More I look at it, the more I just want to strip it to bare metal and repaint. That I found reproduction decals on the net is spuring this train of thought.




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  17. us56456712

    us56456712

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    Paint wise he easiest thing to do is to is to sand off the old decals unless they are vinyl. Then you have to use heat to soften the adhesive (you probably know this). I wouldn't take it to bare metal. I would clean with detergent followed by acetone, lightly sand, fill in any dents with Bondo, fill in really deep scratches with Bondo scratch filler and then use 3 cans of spray primer. I do light coats 15 minutes apart. This makes a mess of your shop with overspray as you are using light coats. I use metal etching primer for the first can and then regular primer. Don't use spray can filler primer as it is so thik the nozzle plugs up and it either stops spraying or splatters, just use lots of thin coats of regular primer. Sand lightly with 400 over the final coat of primer, touch up any remaining divots with scratch filler and paint it white. With white none of the minor flaws will show. I would then clear coat it with the rattle can 2 part stuff that is rock hard, your soft rattle can easy to chip paint will be as good as factory. You need a respirator and protective gear for this as it is very toxic to the lungs. Be careful drilling into the pin as the bit can drift into the crank and ruin it ( don't ask my how I know this). My wheels are pretty bad too, the rear has a flat spot and the front is about as true as a potato chip. I have another straight front French alloy wheel but it will not match the rear. I'll have to think about what I will do if I can't straighten the front. Your Peugeot may be a basic bike but it is cool. There will probably be fewer of these in the future as most people will not tolerate the French weirdness and as they wear out they will be tossed instead of rebuilt. I think fewer of these French bikes will be rebuilt than say old Japanese bikes. Mine came from a dumpster.
    Here is a Schwinn Tandem frame someone gave me.
    [​IMG]
    I put it in a phosphoric acid bath.
    [​IMG]
    Cleaned it, didn't even sand it and used 3 cans of primer on it and put a blue base coat on it. I didn't even use Bondo scratch filler on this one.
    [​IMG]
    Close up of rattle can base coat finish.
    [​IMG]
    Top metal flake coat with 2 part clear coat on top of that. It fell off my garage rafter when I untied the rope holding it and it only had a small scratch.
    [​IMG]
    This is way easier and faster than stripping.
    Water transfer decals are hard to put on, it's doable but once you place the large ones they will not move to be straightened without ripping. Decals that co over uneven surfaces like on a chain guard will probably have bubbles that cannot be removed with out tearing the decal. Here is one I did for my Daughters birthday, the decals were hard to put on. As you can see, the chain guard decal broke.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
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  18. peejus

    peejus

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    The decals provided by this service are self adhesive vinyl. But they are the thinnest material available and they can mimic water transfer.

    The trick is to do a wet transfer, mist the area where the decal is to be applied with water. Then, the sticker will float over the area until it can be pressed out and left to dry.

    I would imagine that a mist bottle filled with 70% isopropyl alcohol will quicken up the cureing process for the decal.

    Thankfully, there are no irregular surfaces with this build. Otherwise, you can get micro sol that will soften the decal, or, just add some white vinegar to the decal water.

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  19. us56456712

    us56456712

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    I wish I would have know this when I did the water transfer decals, The ones I put on as a kid would slide all over the place when wet but the big ones just brake apart. I have put on the thin vinyl ones, but they were small and I had no problem with them but it would have been nice to have been able to slide them around a little. So you are saying for the vinyl ones to use 70% isopropyl alcohol?
     
  20. peejus

    peejus

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    One would normally just wet down the area for the sticker then press it in once you have it positioned. After that, you have to leave everything alone for a week or more while the water evaporates.
    I'm guessing that you could use 70% isopropyl to the achieve the same results, but it would cut down on the cure time.

    Back to the paint.. A co-worker of mine just had all his cars rims sand blasted and powder coated for $50 a rim. That's... A really good deal. The catch was, they slid the rims in on another job that was getting the same treatment and color. But it was a two week turn around. I'm going to bring the frame by and see what they can do for me.

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