Check out this spoke pattern

[Rooski]

First off, if any of you guys have seen, or done this pattern, speak out.

For awhile, I've been playing around with the 3 leading/3 trailing spoke pattern on some of my bikes. Been also playing around with mixing colored spokes, for some "wheel art".

Recently, an idea for a new pattern popped in my head. I couldn't find any samples of this pattern on the web, so not sure if it's been experimented with, or not. My main concern with it would be the long term durability/reliability as a rear wheel on a cruiser bike, so figured I'd build a set for one of my bikes, and do some road testing. I know there's many members here that also build wheels, so any comments/opinions on estimated strength are certainly welcomed. I understand this pattern will make for a weaker wheel than what's considered a standard, and I wouldn't try it on an MTB or BMX bike, but I'm hoping it will prove durable enough for the rear of a cruiser bike.

It's a hybrid pattern that combines three "2 leading/2 trailing" clusters, and three radial clusters. At the nipples, the spoke angle changes every 4 spokes. The pattern looks just okay when using all the same color spokes, but really stands out when combining colors. I think the best use of the pattern is using black for the 2L-2T clusters, and an accent color for the radials.

Here's a photo mocked up with the basic idea. My Electra Rat Fink is the test bike, hence the color choice.

One of the members over at EBF (thanks Helltrack!) noticed it resembles the symbol for radioactivity, so we came up with the name "Radial Active" for this pattern.

For the test build, I decided to go all out and do a whacky tri-color.

So, that's it. I still need to do the rear wheel, and get out and road test. Like I said, comments (good or bad) are welcomed, especially from wheelbuilders. And, in case you're curious, I chose not to do any interlacing at the crossings, as I wanted to see how the wheels would hold up without interlacing, as I prefer the look of perfectly straight spokes.

BTW, one cool side effect of the contrasting spokes colors is the color strobe effect as the wheel spins. I posted a video showing this, at the following link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSI0Q1wRLTg

 

[Bicycle808]

I think it's awesome, and the spoke angles definitely look right to build a front wheel strong enough for use with no brake. I might be a little bit worried about use for a rear wheel or any wheel with hub brakes, but I'm a heavy guy who tends to run on the paranoid side. I'm very curious as to how it holds up with that S.A. X-fd hub.

At any rate, it looks cool, and I feel like my 26" wheels with the same hub and a 3x pattern put the nips at some funny angles; might do a 2x pattern on the next one (although they've been working out well so far....). Your pattern at least keeps the nips somewhere in the neighborhood of 90degrees to the rim.
-rob

 

[Rooski]

As far as awesome, you definitely built a killer wheel. For the front, it looks rock solid. The only concern I could possibly see for the rear is how many pulling spokes you have on the drive side of the wheel. From the picture, It only looks like six.

Yep, only 6 trailing, and 6 leading per side. So, I now have 6 doing the work of 9. Should be an interesting test, for sure. I normally don't hammer around on my cruisers, but for this test, I plan on purposely stressing it, a bit

I also thought about doing 1 cross in place of the radials, but I didn't think it would help enough to outweigh the cool factor.

I don't mind occasionally breaking, and having to replace a spoke, every now and then. My obvious concern would be if one of my wheels decided to completely explode, right when I need it most.

 

[Rooski]

I think it's awesome, and the spoke angles definitely look right to build a front wheel strong enough for use with no brake. I might be a little bit worried about use for a rear wheel or any wheel with hub brakes, but I'm a heavy guy who tends to run on the paranoid side. I'm very curious as to how it holds up with that S.A. X-fd hub.

At any rate, it looks cool, and I feel like my 26" wheels with the same hub and a 3x pattern put the nips at some funny angles; might do a 2x pattern on the next one (although they've been working out well so far....). Your pattern at least keeps the nips somewhere in the neighborhood of 90degrees to the rim.
-rob

Yeah, like most of my bikes, my test rear wheel will have a large diameter hub (Nexus 7), and these large hubs with my 24" rims cause some serious spoke bending at the nipples. A 2 cross would be better. In the late 90's and early 2000's, Schwinn was doing 2 cross rears on their models which came with Nexus 7's. I had 2 such bikes, and with the one I still have (a beat up 1998 Cruiser Seven), the rear wheel is still perfectly fine.

BTW, I weigh in at a measly 170.

 

[rydr1]

That is an amazing setup.

I'm ruding for you that the rear wheel doesn't distort at all. I have held back from building certain wheel patterns because I was always freaked out about messing up the wheel.

 

[Rooski]

Okay, the rear wheel is built up, and mounted. The "Beta Fink" is ready for testing.

I appreciate all the comments/opinions, so far, and by all means, keep em coming. I'll be posting back some results, good or bad. After every ride, I'll be checking trueness, and inspecting the spoke holes on the hubs for any cracking or stretching. I hope they last, because I like the way they look. Not necessarily for the potential to play around with color combos, but I also think the overall combination of spoke angles look pretty nice, from just about any viewing angle, compared with the 3L-3T pattern I've been using, which has a tendency to look real odd when viewed from certain angles.

Wish me luck with my testing, and if you never hear from me again, well.......you could probably guess what happened. :shock:

 

[MIGZ]

That looks great how are you calculating spoke lengths?

Also interested in learning about the 3 leading 3 trailing spoke length calculation.

 

[Rooski]

That looks great how are you calculating spoke lengths?

Also interested in learning about the 3 leading 3 trailing spoke length calculation.

Well, hello Migs! Long time, no see! How ya been?

Well, once I have the hub and rim measurements, I've just been using the following online calculator:

http://www.bikeschool.com/tools/spoke-length-calculator

So far it's done me well, although on this current hybrid build, which uses 2 different lengths (2x and radial) all my spokes came out just a tad long, but still usable. I recalculated using a different calculator, and came up with the same results, so I still need to backtrack and figure out what went goofy.

As far as calculating for a 3L-3T, it's the same as a 3 cross. That's the cool thing about it. You can take any 3x wheel, and re-lace it to 3L-3T using the same spokes.

I just recently took this brand new Felt wheel:

....and took it apart, and reusing spokes, I re-laced it to this:

That wheel used thick 12g spokes, and I didn't interlace any of the crossings. I could have interlaced the outer crossings, but chose not to because I like the look of all perfectly straight spokes.

I've done standard 14g spokes in 3L-3T without interlacing, and have not suffered any issues, so far. On the first 3L-3T set I ever did, I did the recommended full interlacing, and it was a pain. And, the spokes really do some hard bending around each other.

I think it actually looks kinda cool, like a basket weave. I'm still using this set on my GR, and they've held up just fine.

If you have any more specific questions about doing 3L-3T, or even help beta test this hybrid pattern, just hit me up. I'd be more than happy to help out, if I can

 

[MIGZ]

That looks great how are you calculating spoke lengths?

Also interested in learning about the 3 leading 3 trailing spoke length calculation.

Well, hello Migs! Long time, no see! How ya been?

Well, once I have the hub and rim measurements, I've just been using the following online calculator:

http://www.bikeschool.com/tools/spoke-length-calculator

So far it's done me well, although on this current hybrid build, which uses 2 different lengths (2x and radial) all my spokes came out just a tad long, but still usable. I recalculated using a different calculator, and came up with the same results, so I still need to backtrack and figure out what went goofy.

As far as calculating for a 3L-3T, it's the same as a 3 cross. That's the cool thing about it. You can take any 3x wheel, and re-lace it to 3L-3T using the same spokes.

I just recently took this brand new Felt wheel:

....and took it apart, and reusing spokes, I re-laced it to this:

That wheel used thick 12g spokes, and I didn't interlace any of the crossings. I could have interlaced the outer crossings, but chose not to because I like the look of all perfectly straight spokes.

I've done standard 14g spokes in 3L-3T without interlacing, and have not suffered any issues, so far. On the first 3L-3T set I ever did, I did the recommended full interlacing, and it was a pain. And, the spokes really do some hard bending around each other.

I think it actually looks kinda cool, like a basket weave. I'm still using this set on my GR, and they've held up just fine.

If you have any more specific questions about doing 3L-3T, or even help beta test this hybrid pattern, just hit me up. I'd be more than happy to help out, if I can

All good in my world. Still spending way more time than I should playing with bikes but hey it could be worse.

I'm going to give the 3l3t a try and see how it turns out.

 

[Rooski]

Yeah, I hear ya, Migs. I had planned to get some yard work done, this weekend, but ended up in the garage, screwing around with my wheels, again.

Good luck with the 3L-3T. I'm sure you have found a tutorial on it, but if you need something, I think I have a couple of them bookmarked on my other PC. I do all my inward spokes first, and normally make them leading, starting at the valve stem hole. Then I do all the outward spokes as trailing.

PM me a pic when done.

 

[B607]

I can lace wheels using a simple pattern but my head hurts looking at the way you laced those wheels. :shock: They look great! I hope they hold up okay. Gary

 

[jerrykr]

^
+1
what Gary said. Those patterns really look great IMHO.

 

[FunkyStickman]

It's kind of like a hybrid crow's foot, but different. I've done a bunch of different lacings, but never tried one like this.

I like it! :mrgreen:

 

[Rooski]

The only concern I could possibly see for the rear is how many pulling spokes you have on the drive side of the wheel. From the picture, It only looks like six.

Hey, I just had another thought about this particular concern. I understand about the "drive side" trailing spokes taking most of the stress during pedal strokes on a derailer equipped bike with heavy dishing, but with an internally geared hub, which is almost symmetrical, the pawls are locked onto the internal surface of the hub, between the flanges. Seems to me, since the drive force is at, or near the center of the hub, both the right and left trailing spokes should be sharing the load near equally.


BTW, I did some riding around the neighborhood on them, last night, hitting every bump I could find, purposely dropping off lots of curbs, and braking hard. As soon as I started out, though, I got the immediate impression that these wheel felt stiffer then I'm used to. They felt harsher, but also felt like more of my pedal power was being transferred into drive force. I could just be imagining it, so I'll have to do more comparisons.

 

[rico]

i like what i see verry much !
great work !, wish you where near me

can you make a youtube video of how is done

 

[Hammond Eggz]

Certainly LOOKS cool!
I just hope you don't experience any catastrophic failures at speed! :shock:

 

[clamdigger]

Nice work! Looking at all of these patterns makes me wounder which one would sound best with playing cards,or inflated baloon. Maybe the open gap would have an attention getting pulsating sound.

 

[scottgregory74]

Awesome wheels, where do you get the colored spokes?