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kingfish254

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While motorized bikes don't do it for me, I have no problem with them being in the build off as long as the bike is also pedal powered. They have been allowed for years. I don't see the need to have a separate class for such a small subset of the builds. Traditionally, there have only been one and more recently two classes. Splitting the build off further into various sub-classes doesn't make sense in my opinion. Unofficial sub-classes have been loosely organized in the past with mixed success. I don't see the need to have separate categories, Klunker, Strandie, Motor, Stretch, Lowrider, Boardtracker, Roadie, Muscle, Chopper, BMX, etc......... Just build a cool bike and have fun.

My opinion on watering down the build offs with a ton of classes hasn't changed from above. If we add enough classes then everyone can get a prize :D . Oh wait, that has always been the case!!! The only guaranteed prize that every single builder gets is the one that they build and ride with pride down the road.
 

RustyGold

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The only way to justify a separate class for motorized is if you can get enough participants. I think it would be more suitable for a mini build-off/challenge at first...if that showed legs, it could become a separate big build off class, or maybe even the theme for a big build off. I think it's going to be hard to pull that many powered builders, though.

A lot of the other ideas can also be ran as challenges/mini-build offs...or, during a big build off, a nested mini build off. Throw up a post with a prize or challenge similar to Oddjob's OJs. A no buck or low buck challenge during a build off. A vintage MtB challenge. A road bike/fixie challenge. Etc

Too much separation, I believe, would just dilute the build off, challenges could add interest, I think, without discouraging builders.
 

Oldbiscuit

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Price/budget would be nearly impossible to judge/control

Also we already have people every year that don't enter the right class and we only have 2 now :crazy2:. Can you imagine with 3, 4, 5 classes?

I agree that fab needs to be separated out or at least excluded from the current class 1. Truly a bolt on/stick on/recover/reuse type affair. Class 2 as it is now is where the fab work (welding and machining) needs to reside. Even some of the class 1 fab as minor as it is, has been, gets questioned from time to time. I'll use myself as an example from last year's build. My custom-built seatpost was definitely out there on the edge beyond what anyone without access to machining or TIG welding equipment would do. Looking back on it it was a poor choice because it just wasn't within the spirit of class 1 IMHO. Although the way the rules are written for extensive frame and fork mods for class 2 it just bridges that gap when you start talking about accessories. Everyone is at a different skill level and has access to different levels of tooling and equipment

We discussed a powered class before this buildoff got underway. Gas, electric, whatever. Right at the beginning of this very thread
My opinion on watering down the build offs with a ton of classes hasn't changed from above. If we add enough classes then everyone can get a prize :D . Oh wait, that has always been the case!!! The only guaranteed prize that every single builder gets is the one that they build and ride with pride down the
The only way to justify a separate class for motorized is if you can get enough participants. I think it would be more suitable for a mini build-off/challenge at first...if that showed legs, it could become a separate big build off class, or maybe even the theme for a big build off. I think it's going to be hard to pull that many powered builders, though.

A lot of the other ideas can also be ran as challenges/mini-build offs...or, during a big build off, a nested mini build off. Throw up a post with a prize or challenge similar to Oddjob's OJs. A no buck or low buck challenge during a build off. A vintage MtB challenge. A road bike/fixie challenge. Etc

Too much separation, I believe, would just dilute the build off, challenges could add interest, I think, without discouraging builders.
Now I’m sorry I voiced an opinion. No sour grapes on my part, I just figured it might encourage more builders if there were more classes.
 

Captain Awesome

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Now I’m sorry I voiced an opinion. No sour grapes on my part, I just figured it might encourage more builders if there were more classes.
A worthwhile discussion is never a drag, especially with this reasonable bunch.
:113:

Definitely don't be sorry. Just a discussion at this point. Allow everyone a voice and move on with what makes sense
 

kingfish254

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Now I’m sorry I voiced an opinion. No sour grapes on my part, I just figured it might encourage more builders if there were more classes.

Never be sorry about speaking up man. Hope my response didn't sound harsh. It wasn't meant to be.
 

Oldbiscuit

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Never be sorry about speaking up man. Hope my response didn't sound harsh. It wasn't meant to be.
I didn’t take it that way(harsh), I just don’t want to come off sounding like a sore loser, which I’m not. I entered the build off knowing full well that my garage build was no where near the level of the top builds. I just entered for the fun, which I’m sure most if not all of us do. I’m just saying that in class 2 that we’re pitting novice builders with limited funds against basically pro builders with almost unlimited resources. I really believe that a lot of builders shied away from entering after seeing what they would have to compete against. That’s why I merely suggested a class 3 which would be a true rat build using only used parts and cut and weld anyway you want, with the exception of tires and tubes. Plus all fabrication would be your own and not jobbed out. Either way, I’ll be back for another build off, not to win but just to have fun.
 

Captain Awesome

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That’s why I merely suggested a class 3 which would be a true rat build using only used parts and cut and weld anyway you want, with the exception of tires and tubes. Plus all fabrication would be your own and not jobbed out
It's a great idea. I could definitely see a cut and weld build off using only repurposed tubes. Chop up 16 bikes to make 1 :D

And not throwing shade at anyone, but it's always going to score better and be viewed differently when you do the work yourself. It's just a fact
 
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The number of builders could dictate a change in the annual Build off. At least a dozen or so for each class as a minimum. But it would get confusing and complicated.
I just enter for fun, and as usual, come in about 5th place. Usually 5th from the bottom, until this last time. :rofl: I'm just in it for fun and to have a reason to just be in my shop working or planning bike stuff. "I gotta finish my bike!" It keeps me out of shopping trips and "visiting friends" all day long while the ladies chatter away. Sometimes they show up in my bike bunker and try to hang around and pretend to be interested. It's a ruse, they always have a plan to get me away and go somewhere where I'll be miserable. So I put on some music like this and away they go!
 

Oldbiscuit

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Exactly. Build a bike anyway you want, 1, 2 or 3 wheels. But build it all from used parts. No custom frames made with new metal in jigs. A true rat bike.
 
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I don't think the jig and where the tubes are sourced is what makes a rat. You can use new material and fancy tools to achieve the attitude.
I also don't see how the dollar limit/parts pile rules would be enforceable. A builder could just spend their hundreds or thousands building up the pile, buy everything the day before it kicks off, and technically, it was all from the hoard.
It seems like a form of elitism to say that the only rat is a cheap old one. I think that a voter can put whatever restrictions that they like on their vote, dollar or equipment wise, but I feel like Class 1 and 2 should stay as is. Perhaps a tweak or two to prevent Captain from those extensive fork mods in Class 1, but not much beyond that. I still think powered bikes should be their own class though, so much more going on there to consider. However, this leads to further fragmentation, because then we'd have to do Powered Class 1 and 2.
 

Captain Awesome

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So you mean a 'hoard rat bike' for those of us with too many frames laying around soaking up too much garage space?

A 'Recycle Rat'?
Exactly. Build a bike anyway you want, 1, 2 or 3 wheels. But build it all from used parts. No custom frames made with new metal in jigs. A true rat bike.
You can always do a mini build-off and post the challenge. If others are interested we can definitely make it happen. That's the beauty here is that anyone can throw a challenge out. Look back through some of the other cool ones that have happened like the zombie bike build off and things like that
 

Captain Awesome

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I don't think the jig and where the tubes are sourced is what makes a rat. You can use new material and fancy tools to achieve the attitude.
I also don't see how the dollar limit/parts pile rules would be enforceable. A builder could just spend their hundreds or thousands building up the pile, buy everything the day before it kicks off, and technically, it was all from the hoard.
It seems like a form of elitism to say that the only rat is a cheap old one. I think that a voter can put whatever restrictions that they like on their vote, dollar or equipment wise, but I feel like Class 1 and 2 should stay as is. Perhaps a tweak or two to prevent Captain from those extensive fork mods in Class 1, but not much beyond that. I still think powered bikes should be their own class though, so much more going on there to consider. However, this leads to further fragmentation, because then we'd have to do Powered Class 1 and 2.
Some seriously good points thanks for that Matti

I'm not sure what fork mods you're talking about though? 😂
 

Captain Awesome

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Sorry, meant the seatpost.
You're not wrong in my opinion. That's why I called myself out

The way it's currently written.....


Class 1: Traditional Builds
This class is for builds using a factory manufactured frame and forks. Very minor modifications are acceptable like adding brackets, grinding off tabs, etc. This is more of an old school build category created for folks who may not have pro level fab and welding skills. If it appears that you’re frame modifications are too extensive you may be asked to move to Class 2.


....means I could fabricate everything else if I wanted since it makes no mention of accessories. Granted there could always be someone that protests, but I can't think of an example where someone was asked to move from class 1 to class 2. They may exist and someone can chime in with examples
 
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What about something like this?

Keep the two classes as-is, but have a series of “prizes” as well: best electric, best custom paint job, best bolt-on, best cut-weld, best no budget, best high budget, the options are endless.
This way, there may only be a few bikes in a category that won’t justify its own class but that kind of bike can still be recognized. And THAT may motivate someone to enter who ordinarily might not.

For me, a rookie and “low skilled” builder, I just do it for fun and pray that I get at least one vote that not from me.

And spitballing is always good for getting ideas rolling around.
 
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Keep the two classes as-is, but have a series of “prizes” as well: best electric, best custom paint job, best bolt-on, best cut-weld, best no budget, best high budget, the options are endless.
That's kinda going on now with the Prize Pot thing and the OJs. People set their personal criteria, and award based on that. Next year, in memory of the good Doctor T's generosity, the Goodest From Afarest Award will honor those who make the most from the least, as chosen by me
 

kingfish254

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What about something like this?

Keep the two classes as-is, but have a series of “prizes” as well: best electric, best custom paint job, best bolt-on, best cut-weld, best no budget, best high budget, the options are endless.
This way, there may only be a few bikes in a category that won’t justify its own class but that kind of bike can still be recognized. And THAT may motivate someone to enter who ordinarily might not.

For me, a rookie and “low skilled” builder, I just do it for fun and pray that I get at least one vote that not from me.

And spitballing is always good for getting ideas rolling around.

That is exactly the idea around the Build Off Prize Pot. Check back in the links at the different categories that people came up with to award a simple cool prize too in prior build offs. Unfortunately, we didn't get much participation in the Prize Pot this go round. But anyone can create a prize category. It's been fun over the years.

 
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I’m not sure how I missed all that. But then again I don’t do alot of hanging out on the boards.

So do I understand correctly that anyone involved can offer up a prize? It’s not restricted to moderators? If that’s the case, very cool. But on the other hand, as a newcomer I would feel uncomfortable offering a prize of my own. I don’t feel I’ve earned it yet to offer a prize.

And maybe it’s something to keep in mind that I didn’t even know we have a Prize Pot. Maybe incorporated into the main contest, make it more “official.”

As much as the site puts a lot of deserved focus on the build offs, there’s A LOT on here and if you’re not looking for something it’s unlikely you’ll stumble across it.
 
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