The Prowler

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There's simply not enough structure. Same on wide rims as well. I tried adding materials, plastic liners etc to retain a squareish profile, no luck.
3inch profile.jpg
I'm using an Innova 3'' in my build OP for effect. Doubt it'll remain in the final.

Round slicks appear modern. The Animal T1 was one of the closest I could find to faintly capture the effect an old slick. Wished it didn't have that "1" groove pattern.
Animal.jpg
 

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I understand that it's not what you had in mind, but I don't think it's a bad looking tire.
Yeah, it's a nice-looking tire, don't get me wrong. I just can't believe it's somehow almost as narrow as the front. The front is a 20x1.75, the rear is a 20x2.125. They should not be this close in size. I don't get how that's possible. If it was at least 2 inches wide, like most 2.125"-wide tires I've messed with, then I'd probably be okay with it. However, the actual width is disappointing to me.
 
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I don't think that back tire is all that bad, looks bigger than the front in the one picture you shared with both showing. Maybe you are just disappointed that it isn't as big as you expected. Let it sit for a minute, might grow on you
It's an attractive tire, but yeah, I was expecting it to be at least a little bigger. I'll try getting some better photos outside with my Nikon. Maybe that will help. My phone camera isn't the best, but it's easier to shoot indoor pics with, especially at night.
 
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I reviewed the Duro 2.125 which is more like 1.75''. Aside from the inaccurate size, the main issue is poor quality thin rubber and absence of any anti puncture feature. The 3'' is just as bad, not worth the money IMO. The center bulging at even low PSI doesn't look proper. The 3'' is a comfortable tire but I've gotten 2 flats in under 100 miles:arghh: Needs a liner.
The narrow slick and front doesn't bug me.:wink1:

Comparison of the Duro next to a 70's Carlisle 2.125. Wish a company would make a good 2'' slick. The OG tire weight is 2.5lbs. That's a lot rubber!
View attachment 178486
Okay, this is one of the many reasons why I love this forum: you guys know your stuff!

Yeah, when I busted out my digital calipers, the width was 1.8-something inches, which is darn close to 1.75 inches. Tire durability isn't something I typically think about, but that's good information to know! Knowing this tire's not even good for 100 miles is pretty disappointing to hear.

It's cool you can provide a visual comparison between that Duro tire, and an OG 70s tire. My only concerns would be deterioration, and price. That Duro tire, even with the obnoxiously-high shipping cost, only set me back $33.75. Whenever I see those original 70s slicks in usable condition, the prices make me feel like it'd be cheaper just to buy the whole bike.
 
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I'd run that tire :113:

As Hamp was pointing out, you put a 3" on there and the narrow rim will squeeze it in and not allow it to reach a full 3" anyhow plus it will "crown" the tire more. Sure you might squeeze it in or even dimple the stays, but it still won't quite be right
Well, maybe I'll hold off on returning/refunding it for a little while. I'm still not happy with it though. I wouldn't expect a 3" tire to really reach its full size anyways. Most bikes I've dealt with tend to be narrower than their advertised width. And yeah, I can't say I'd really want the tire to "crown" either. Maybe if I can find a good-looking 20x2.40 rounded slick, that could work with a narrow wheel. I'll just have to figure it out.
 
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There's simply not enough structure. Same on wide rims as well. I tried adding materials, plastic liners etc to retain a squareish profile, no luck.
View attachment 178506
I'm using an Innova 3'' in my build OP for effect. Doubt it'll remain in the final.

Round slicks appear modern. The Animal T1 was one of the closest I could find to faintly capture the effect an old slick. Wished it didn't have that "1" groove pattern.
View attachment 178507
I've been looking at those Innova 3" tires on eBay. Think you could give me the exact inflated width in decimals? That'd really help me out.

Agreed, round slicks do look modern, and modern is not the look I'm after here. Those Animal T1s look pretty good! I agree that they'd look better without that groove, but those could still work for what I need. I'll have to see if I can find any online. Thanks for your help Hamppea!
 
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Vintage slick are for looks. I was fortunate to get a NOS tire from the late 70's in rideable condition. It was a small fortune. I had a blast riding on it for hundreds of miles before the cords finally failed :cry:
Round tires look more street is what I meant.... We want drag.

For the love a Pete, will someone make quality drag slicks for bicycles!

I've been looking at those Innova 3" tires on eBay. Think you could give me the exact inflated width in decimals? That'd really help me out.

Agreed, round slicks do look modern, and modern is not the look I'm after here. Those Animal T1s look pretty good! I agree that they'd look better without that groove, but those could still work for what I need. I'll have to see if I can find any online. Thanks for your help Hamppea!
66mm width @35 PSI on a 37.5mm rim. 60mm height from rim edge. Widest 22mm below the top/crown.

:dontmentionit:
 
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Vintage slick are for looks. I was fortunate to get a NOS tire from the late 70's in rideable condition. It was a small fortune. I had a blast riding on it for hundreds of miles before the cords finally failed :cry:
Round tires look more street is what I meant.... We want drag.

For the love a Pete, will someone make quality drag slicks for bicycles!


66mm width @35 PSI on a 37.5mm rim. 60mm height from rim edge. Widest 22mm below the top/crown.

:dontmentionit:
Vintage slicks do look cool, but most bikes that I see with original slicks are usually display pieces. I want a play bike, not a display bike! Sounds like you lucked out on that one slick, but if I wanted to spend a small fortune on something, I'd probably spend it taking home another project!

Agreed, street isn't the look I'm going for, I want drag.
I wish there was a vintage bicycle aftermarket at least half as good as the automotive aftermarket. We need a "Coker Tires" for bikes!

Awesome, thanks!
 

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Vintage slicks do look cool, but most bikes that I see with original slicks are usually display pieces. I want a play bike, not a display bike! Sounds like you lucked out on that one slick, but if I wanted to spend a small fortune on something, I'd probably spend it taking home another project!

Agreed, street isn't the look I'm going for, I want drag.
I wish there was a vintage bicycle aftermarket at least half as good as the automotive aftermarket. We need a "Coker Tires" for bikes!

Awesome, thanks!
I know you've seen the video where the guy turns a knobby mtb tire into a slick with a belt sander...

Carl
 

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It's been some years since I seen it. I'll go digging though it's probably in the archives here...

Carl.
 
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Took some time to shoot some better pics of the Murray with my Nikon today, so I can hopefully better show the issues I'm struggling with.
From the side view, the two tires don't look noticeably different... and that's an issue for me. While I'm not used to working with 20 inch bikes and tires, based on my experience with 26" bikes, there should be a significant difference between a 1.75-inch-wide tire and a 2.125-inch-wide tire, regardless of wheel size. The fact that my front and rear tires look almost the same size doesn't sit well with me. One of the 2 out of 3 requirements for a MBBO bike is "big and little tires." The fact that it almost looks like I put 2 of the same size tire on the front and rear doesn't work for me.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_1.jpg
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_2.jpg
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_3.jpg
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BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_5.jpg


I know some of you have said that slick is not that bad of a tire, and I admit, it's got a good look. That said, I can't stand how I have all this room between the seat and chain stays, and the slick doesn't take advantage of it. Maybe it's just the way the frame is shaped, but I figure that with as much room as there is out back, there should be a tire back there that fills in that space. I'm calling that a middleweight tire. It's too skinny to be a balloon tire.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_6.jpg
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_7.jpg


But wait, there's more! Despite how much room the frame provides, the chain actually sits closer to the tire than the chain stays. Not by much... but enough that I couldn't get away with squeezing a 20x3.0 Innova slick in the back.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_8.jpg
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_9.jpg


Another issue I hadn't really factored into my original design: the Schwinn mag sprocket I want to use would nudge the chain even closer to the rear tire. The original Murray chainring is convex, while the Schwinn mag chainring is concave. So that's one more issue that limits my options on finding a better rear tire.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_10.jpg


I mocked up the tank and chain guard again to see if that might change my mind on that rear tire. It didn't. Plus, here's another issue that matters to me: Right now, with the tires that are on this bike, and those poorly-designed springer fork rockers, the chain stays on this bike sit almost perfectly level, which is what I want... sort of. I want that part of the frame to be completely parallel to the ground, but only after I replace the rockers with ones that will push the front wheel down and forward just enough for the spokes to clear the rocker bolts. If it's level now, then it won't be when/if I modify those rockers. In order for that plan to work, the back tire needs to be substantially bigger than the front tire. With the way it is right now, I won't be able to achieve the stance I want this bike to have.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_11.jpg
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Just to show I'm not merely eyeballing the differences in tire sizes, here is what my digital readout calipers said the dimensions are (in inches.) First up, the approximate width of that slick tire, which shows about 1.863 inches, or about 47.3mm.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_16.jpg


Next: drag slick sidewall height, from rim to the peak of the tread. Roughly 1.5 inches, or 38mm.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_17.jpg


Next, the width of the front tire. 1.637 inches, or 41.5mm.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_18.jpg


Front tire sidewall height: 1.333 inches, or 33.85mm.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_19.jpg


Next, the dimensions of the frame. First, the narrowest point of the seat stays, right behind the rear fender brace/mount: 2.755 inches, or almost 70mm.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_20.jpg


Next, the narrowest spot of the chain stays, right next to the fender brace/mount: 1.792 inches, or 45.5mm.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_21.jpg


Next, the width right on the edge of the tire tread: 2.563 inches, or 65mm.
BftD_murray_muscle_bike_tire_issues_22.jpg


So yeah. That's where I'm at right now. I've got a bent springer fork, an underwhelming drag slick, clearance issues for bigger tires, and a nagging fear that I won't be able to build this bike the way I originally wanted. I may need to come up with a backup plan in the event I can't achieve the exact look I want. I want this bike to feel period-correct, even if it's not, but the limited variety of vintage-looking slicks, coupled with the tire clearance issue I mentioned, might mean I'll have to go for a more "retro-modern" look. I'll try sketching some other ideas while I figure this out. I'll also look at the tires everyone suggested earlier to see if any will fit the look I'm after. Hopefully I'll come up with a solution. At least these issues are just springing up in the first few weeks of the MBBO, instead of the last few weeks like they normally do.
 
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As a matter of interest, how much work do you think it would take to get a 24" wheel in the back?

As to the forks, with a bit of heat and someone who knows what they are doing, it should not be difficult to straighten it - ad any slight imperfections will be concealed by the spring.

The good news is that it is still only November, and I have only got as far as making a set of dropout extenders...
 
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As a matter of interest, how much work do you think it would take to get a 24" wheel in the back?

As to the forks, with a bit of heat and someone who knows what they are doing, it should not be difficult to straighten it - ad any slight imperfections will be concealed by the spring.

The good news is that it is still only November, and I have only got as far as making a set of dropout extenders...
I'd have to get some drop out extenders fabricated to fit a 24" back there. I could just mount them using the existing dropouts and the bolt holes for the sissy bar. The issue with putting a 24" wheel in the back on this frame is that unless I design the dropout extender to push the axle up at least an inch or so from where it was before, it'll change the rake of the frame. I like the rake as it is, so I really don't want to change it if I can help it. I really wanted this to be a strictly 20 inch build, but the idea of a 24/20 Murray with this wild rake, and the front wheel kicked down while the rear wheel is kicked up, sounds like an idea worth exploring. I just might tinker with that later, but first I need to get the right-side dropout straightened so I can go from there.

I'm sure my friend Allan can fix it, but I'll have to check with him and see. I should be meeting with him soon to finish assembling another bike of mine, so I can talk with him about fixing the fork in addition to the rest of what we plan to do to this bike.

Agreed. Usually the worst problems wait until the last minute to present themselves to me during these build offs, so as frustrating as it is to have all these problems early on, it's also a relief since I have that much more time to solve them. Hey, any step forward, however small, is a step in the right direction! That fork setup you have in mind is going to be a sight to see once it's put together! It's almost like a beefier Monark springer fork the way you have it mocked up!
 
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The result may not be quite as pronounced as you were expecting, but I certainly see the difference between front and back. Naturally, a wider tire also equates to a taller tire, since the profile expands in every direction. Despite any shortcomings, I find your mock-up to be very appealing just the way it is.
 

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