Sturmey Archer 2 speed kickback hub operation

Wildcat · Aug 4, 2024

This video shows how the SA kickback hub operates. The two speeds are direct drive like a one speed, and the second gear is 138% higher. You switch between gears using your pedals. A slight rearward motion will shift the gears.

On this hub, it has a coaster brake. So pedaling all the way back is your brakes. They make a freewheel version also. There's a downside. when you pedal back for brakes, you shift gears also. So if you were in low and hit the brakes, you would now be in high gear. From a stop, you would have to start out, then shift back to low gear. The hub must be turning to shift. An advantage is no shift cable or shifter to adjust.

If you ride this one hub all the time, shifting becomes second nature, and is easy to coordinate.

Wylly · Aug 5, 2024

I’m glad you brought this up. My first foray (several months ago) into classic 50’s & 60’s coaster brake “cruisers” was a 63 Typhoon with red band kick back hub bought on eBay. The bike was in good shape but the hub wouldn’t shift. I talked to the only bike shop in my town and got nowhere, so I took the plunge and popped the thing apart. With some YouTube videos and data from this site I managed to replace the 2 broken bits (the wimpy-ass index spring and one of the coupler springs) and get the bad boy back together; it worked!
I really like it so I bought another red band hub and a yellow band to use on some other project down the road.
I hate cables and wires on my bikes; these hubs seem an elegant solution to the klunky steel uphill problem.

Wildcat · Aug 5, 2024

I also had a Bendix yellow band that worked great. I used it on a converted Varsity.

Those are the same as the SA but have a low and direct instead of a high gear. Ther Bendix blue band has direct and a higher gear and worked well on 20" muscle bikes back in the day. There's a company called Eagle making reproductions last I heard.

One other 2 speed with no cables is the SRAM Automatix. It has a direct and higher gear but shifts on it's own at a certain speed, no kickback. I have one of those in the freewheel version and like it also.

Wylly · Aug 6, 2024

I’m not familiar with the SA hubs. I’m going to look into it. Have you rebuilt or messed with the bendix hubs? What’s up with the flimsy index spring? Apparently it’s the weak spot in the device. I think all three of the bendix products use the same doo-dad.

JA331 · Aug 7, 2024

I have 2 SA kickback hubs and love them. They spin quite freely compared to the old Bendix units. The Bendix also has a rough feel in low gear. I tried one and it is currently residing in a box.

26/11 gearing 2 speed SA

44/19 2 speed SA

Wylly · Aug 7, 2024

Yeah when I first got the Bendix functioning I thought there was still something wrong because of the weird growling in low gear.
I’m going to find an SA and try it out

Wylly · Aug 7, 2024

That looks like a new skiptooth chain on the red

JA331 · Aug 7, 2024

From what I was told the “growling” is normal. The growling I could live with but not the amount of resistance in the hub.

The chain is used but in really decent condition. I was lucky to get it for a good price on ebay. The rear sprocket is a 22T SA which I removed every second tooth. It works well.

Wildcat · Aug 7, 2024

JA331 said:
From what I was told the “growling” is normal. The growling I could live with but not the amount of resistance in the hub.

The chain is used but in really decent condition. I was lucky to get it for a good price on ebay. The rear sprocket is a 22T SA which I removed every second tooth. It works well.

I always thought the tooth spacing between skiptooth and standard was different. I learn new stuff all the time, I just need to write it all down now.

My setup is 39/22. Really easy to ride.

JA331 · Aug 7, 2024

There is a little more backlash but it still works fine. You can run an Ichi Nexus/Sa compatible skip tooth sprocket but you’ll find they run noisy. I’ve heard they run quieter if you smooth out the edges.

Wylly · Aug 8, 2024

Also glad you brought up the 1 inch chain thing. I like skiptooth drive trains for some reason so all of my old schwinns run them. I’ve had pretty good luck finding decent old chains for a decent price on eBay. Adding links is a bit of a pain; you just have to use a little more force. Cogs and chainrings are easy to find. I mostly use New Departure hubs.
I wanted to try a skiptooth chainring and chain with the Bendix kickback, but it would require grinding away every other cog tooth (as mentioned above) on the Bendix which has an integrated cog/screw unit. I haven’t decided if it’s worth it so that project is on hold.
I get why you can’t run a 1” chain across 1/2” cogs, but I never understood why a standard 1/2” chain wouldn’t run across skiptooth cogs…

idiotboy · Aug 9, 2024

Wylly said:
Also glad you brought up the 1 inch chain thing. I like skiptooth drive trains for some reason so all of my old schwinns run them. I’ve had pretty good luck finding decent old chains for a decent price on eBay. Adding links is a bit of a pain; you just have to use a little more force. Cogs and chainrings are easy to find. I mostly use New Departure hubs.
I wanted to try a skiptooth chainring and chain with the Bendix kickback, but it would require grinding away every other cog tooth (as mentioned above) on the Bendix which has an integrated cog/screw unit. I haven’t decided if it’s worth it so that project is on hold.
I get why you can’t run a 1” chain across 1/2” cogs, but I never understood why a standard 1/2” chain wouldn’t run across skiptooth cogs…

1/2" chain is narrower

JA331 · Aug 9, 2024

Wylly said:
Also glad you brought up the 1 inch chain thing. I like skiptooth drive trains for some reason so all of my old schwinns run them. I’ve had pretty good luck finding decent old chains for a decent price on eBay. Adding links is a bit of a pain; you just have to use a little more force. Cogs and chainrings are easy to find. I mostly use New Departure hubs.
I wanted to try a skiptooth chainring and chain with the Bendix kickback, but it would require grinding away every other cog tooth (as mentioned above) on the Bendix which has an integrated cog/screw unit. I haven’t decided if it’s worth it so that project is on hold.
I get why you can’t run a 1” chain across 1/2” cogs, but I never understood why a standard 1/2” chain wouldn’t run across skiptooth cogs…

I have ground 2 SA cogs and it takes at least an hour and a half to do it. I use a Dremel tool with a small diamond tipped cutting wheel to remove the teeth and small abrasive barrels for the final finishing. You’ll be surprised how hard the sprocket material is when you begin!

Wildcat · Aug 9, 2024

When I made my fake skiptooth cogs and chain wheels, they were a lower grade of steel, from China. It was easy to grind them down.

Wylly · Aug 9, 2024

Thanks for the data! I’m going to look for a duplicate cog online for the red band Bendix in case I want to return it to its original form after I start grinding. My dremel tool is pretty wimpy though.

gben · Sep 10, 2024

Wildcat said:
This video shows how the SA kickback hub operates. The two speeds are direct drive like a one speed, and the second gear is 138% higher.

Do you know what the term "direct drive" actually means? It means that there is no gear reduction or overdrive between the power source and the drive wheel of a vehicle. If a hub has gearing inside for either a low gear or an overdrive, then only one of the speeds is direct-drive, not both of them.

Wylly said:
Also glad you brought up the 1 inch chain thing. I like skiptooth drive trains for some reason so all of my old schwinns run them.

For some reason? Do tell...........

Captain Awesome · Sep 10, 2024

gben said:
Do you know what the term "direct drive" actually means?

Yes, he does. You’re speaking to one of the most knowledgeable people on this page

You’re coming across pretty brash for the new guy. I’d suggest you read the room a bit

Wildcat · Sep 10, 2024

gben said:
Do you know what the term "direct drive" actually means? It means that there is no gear reduction or overdrive between the power source and the drive wheel of a vehicle. If a hub has gearing inside for either a low gear or an overdrive, then only one of the speeds is direct-drive, not both of them.

For some reason? Do tell...........

The two speeds are direct drive (first gear is like a one speed) and a higher gear (138% higher). That's what I should have written.

twojs.bike · Sep 10, 2024

Wildcat said:
The two speeds are direct drive (first gear is like a one speed) and a higher gear (138% higher). That's what I should have written.

It made sense to me.

I actually just bought one. Got the idea from this thread. I am working on a friend’s all blacked out beach cruiser. He lives in a flat area (Richmond VA) and mostly rides to the local breweries . He was complaining that he needed his bike to go faster. Well for some reason it came new geared ridiculously low. Like granny gear. It is a single speed coaster brake. Bought during Covid, so maybe it was due to lack
of parts.

Anyways, I am going to re-lace the rim onto the SA kickback and use a smaller sprocket. Goal is to have a fast and 38% faster gear. No cables!

I am really excited about this. Just got the hub yesterday and still need to calculate spoke length.

If this goes well, I may build another.

Thanks for the idea!

Wylly · Sep 10, 2024

Any comments on the old Torpedo/Sachs kickback 2 speeds? I’ve been watching some videos a German coaster brake hub specialist posts on YouTube. Interesting stuff but I have no idea how many of these hubs are around here.

Sturmey Archer 2 speed kickback hub operation

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Sturmey Archer 2 speed kickback hub operation

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