Are Rat Rodders the true creative genius’s of the cycling industry?

Rat Rod Bikes Bicycle Forum

Help Support Rat Rod Bikes Bicycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Well, are we?


  • Total voters
    39
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
1,969
Reaction score
907
Location
New Hampshire
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
I base this question on two parameters:
  1. It was a group of kids in SoCal back in the late 50’s to early sixty’s that rat rodded their 20”bicycles with Polo Seats (banana seats) and Butterfly Bars (highrise bars/ape hangers) that inspired the Muscle Bike Era, ushering-in one of the greatest growth periods in cycling history based on sales.
  2. Rat Rodders modifying old middle weight cruiser bikes with straight bars, off-road tires, rear derailleur’s and taking them into the bush that eventually evolved into the present day Mountain Bike.
When we look at the Build-Off Bikes, there is an extraordinary amount of mechanical ability and esthetic expression. The resolution of how to get an enthused idea to work mechanically, figuring out on how to manufacture it (or repurpose a part) and making these incongruent parts work together while looking cool (whatever “cool” is) takes more than a bit of knowhow.

IMHO we are at the forefront of innovation – I wonder sometimes about what industry executive is lurking onto these pages and going to the Head Honcho with an “Inspired idea that came in a dream!” – Their marketing prowess, coupled with our creative proficiency and all of this for the general public’s benefit.

Freedom of expression – it’s a beautiful thing! :)
 
Kinda like "mashups" in music. It's fun to see how different parts can be recombined to create a new and different bikes. Hard to find a more innovative bunch than rat bikers.
+1
I like your “mashups” analogue; they are indeed analogies in many ways with elements of Jazz improvisations thrown-in for interest!
 
I'm trying to pick up what you're putting down, and I like the overall concept behind your assertion, but i voted "no".... Let me explain why....

1-The pig-bike movement of the 50s that led to the musclebike era was, imo, a fashion trend that resulted from a new generation of young ppl who were reacting to the lack of innovation brought to kids' bikes in a brief period of bike-industry stagnation. Like many modern rat-rodders, these kids' creations were driven primarily by aesthetic considerations but those kids were trying to move forward; to make progress. The prevalent trends in rat-rodding seem to be towards holding onto old stuff and/or trying to make new stuff look old (eg, look at all the threads lately about faux patina.) Essentially, the pig kids were shaping the future, vis-a-vis musclebikes to come, whereas the majority of rat-rodders are working from nostalgic impulses, at least in part.

2-The Marin guys, for the record, preferred the extra clearance provided by the balloon frames over the middlweights. More to the point: the Marin guys were performance junkies. Many of them were competitive road racers, and virtually all of them were building those old balloon frames for a very specific purpose: to be as fast as a bike could possibly be, offroad. Some of the guys built for the downhill races (like Repack), whereas other guys (eg, Steve Potts) were building old cruisers to be as competent as possible for XC-style riding. The majority of the klunker guys couldn't care less about aesthetics; they wanted performance, and durability b/c durability impacted performance. Based on what I've seen on this forum and similar forums, plus the ratters I've known personally, there is absolutely no interest in performance for many ratroddin' cyclists.

Another thing that sets the klunker folks apart from folks like us is that, their bikes were "cutting edge". If Alan Bonds built you a bike in the 70s, relatively speaking within that time period, you were running the absolutely latest and greatest in offroad machinery, even if many of the parts were vintage (even by 70s standards). Many of those guys went on to design/fabricate their own brand-new scratch-built frames, or even their own bike companies. While we RRB types share a common link insofar as we repurpose old stuff and we try kludging/fabbing things that shouldn't work until they do (just like they did), we're doing it b/c we think it's cool....they did it b/c they had to. If something like a Spesh Demo 8 had existed in the 70s, that's what they'd have been riding Repack on, rather than on Excelsior- badged Schwinns.

We are at the point now where we can buy incredibly specialized (with a little "s"; not the bike brand) bikes for just about any niche in cycling. If we want a hardcore mtb, we can buy one. If we have a mild mtb, we can buy bolt-on aftermarket bits to improve it. Similarly, we can buy ready-made cruiser/"kustom" style bikes at the LBS or the WallyWorld, too.... and I suspect that many of us build b/c the pre-made cruisers don't look or feel as "cool" to us as the ones we can build. But, those are mostly aesthetic concerns, aren't they? (To be fair, I built my daily rider as a commuter cruiser, with good brakes, dynamo lights, stuff like that.... which is hard to come by with most current-production cruisers. And that was more about function than form, but I'm pretty much in the minority here, and besides, if all I cARED about was function, I'd have bought a purpose-built commuter bike, right? So I'm still more of an aesthete than a pragmatist....)

As for creativity/innovation: I see tons of creativity on here, and among other folks who prolly fit under the "ratrod" tent. I also see a lot of imitation, tired reworked concepts, half-hearted "mods" that involve little more than flipping the bars or a tire swap, etc. So, while there are a lot of very creative folks rat-rodding, there are also others entirely bereft of creativity. Most of us prolly fit somewhere in between. Innovation? I'm not sure how we'd measure that. We're building almost entirely to subjective parameters here--- aside from trying to keep the cost low, almost none of our goals can be measured in objective terms. The guy whose bike got to the bottom of Repack fastest, he knew he had the best bike.... or, at least, he had a danged good bike and he was a great rider. I guess we can count the "likes" on our thread, or the votes in the build-off, but that just measures the rate of recurrence for positive opinions. It's still subjective data about the aesthetics of the bike in question. Innovators in the road and mountain world can measure their success in the weight of the bike, the drag coefficient, the victories at races....and sales figures. These are objective, quantitative parameters. We can do no such thing. Even if we did decide to weigh our rats, or measure how aerodynamic they were, it'd be a bad joke as far as "innovation" goes, b/c the rest of the bike world is eons ahead of us as far as those things go.

I guess most of the above seems pretty negative, but I don't actually feel sour about any of it. We're into this for the fun-factor, as I see it. I can only speak for myself, but I do what I do with bikes to have fun. And, if you're finding new ways to enjoy yourself and your bikes, that's innovative and creative enough for me. If you look at a bike as an artform, it's easy to see how ppl like The Ren Man, Fordsnake, Kingfish, etc could be considered geniuses... but it's unlikely that they'll actually inspire alot of imitation among current bike manufacturers. Those guys are happy to sell a black bike with red rims and whitewalls, and call it a day.

And, of course, I'm not above any of my own criticism; much of it applies to me as well. I steal ideas, rehash tired concepts again and again, and I ride trails on inefficient bikes. (I'm old and fat; why shouldn't my bike be old and heavy, too?) I got into it mostly out of frustration with the planned-obsolescence that pervades modern bikes; I can have as much fun on my trails on a singlespeed cruiser as I would on a new bike, just at a slower speed. But, I do try to build things that look cool, and I absolutely fall prey to sentimental feelings and nostalgic builds. Like I said before, I do it b/c it's fun. I don't do any of it b/c I'm an innovative genius, or even b/c I wish I were an innovative genius. I'm just trying to have a good time....
 
Last edited:
Very well, the thread is premised upon innovations or cycling trends created outside the corporate halls of influence. In as far as concept refinement is concerned; few individuals or groups have the financial resources that are available at the corporate level, consequently, most of the “proto-concepts” tend to be crude representations of later applications.

Having said that however, I too ride for the fun of it; an example of it was yesterday while riding around the local college campus, when, within an hour of riding, I was told by some onlookers, “Cool ride!” followed by a “Thank you!” by me as I rode by with an Ear to Ear smile on my face. I would look at the Spandex Riders go by in the opposite direction and wondered if they too were told “Cool ride!” by some bystanders – hum, probably not.

We have individualism stamped on each of our rides – something most cyclists’ don’t get because they ride what they have purchased, stock.
 
I think we'll see new rat rod bikes at Wallyworld pretty soon. They may get the design ideas right here. How the faux patina and the conjured up rattiness will look may be good for a laugh, but you never know.
 
Funny how we sometimes go through the effort of trying to make an old bike look new and a new bike look old with parts that don’t belong but do! :)
 
I think we'll see new rat rod bikes at Wallyworld pretty soon. They may get the design ideas right here. How the faux patina and the conjured up rattiness will look may be good for a laugh, but you never know.

Personally, I can't wait to see the decals intended to look like surface rust. That's gonna be AWESOME. :21::crazy::21:

Very well, the thread is premised upon innovations or cycling trends created outside the corporate halls of influence. In as far as concept refinement is concerned; few individuals or groups have the financial resources that are available at the corporate level, consequently, most of the “proto-concepts” tend to be crude representations of later applications.

Having said that however, I too ride for the fun of it; an example of it was yesterday while riding around the local college campus, when, within an hour of riding, I was told by some onlookers, “Cool ride!” followed by a “Thank you!” by me as I rode by with an Ear to Ear smile on my face. I would look at the Spandex Riders go by in the opposite direction and wondered if they too were told “Cool ride!” by some bystanders – hum, probably not.

We have individualism stamped on each of our rides – something most cyclists’ don’t get because they ride what they have purchased, stock.

I totally agree that having a bike with enough personalized features to preclude it from being available at a store anywhere is a desirable thing to a guy like me, and of course we don't have the R&D budget and resources that a bike manufacturer does. Of course, the kids with the pig bikes and the klnukin' enthusiasts didn't have the R&D power that Schwinn did, and yet they beat Schwinn to the punch on both musclebikes, and mtn bikes. The same thing occurred as musclebikes were modified by innovative riders to create BMX. We're essentially able to do the same thing, and many of us are, but it's on a tiny level b/c, as I see it, we're not building to a specific function. And, as of right now, I can't imagine what the next evolutionary step will be (probably b/c I'm not a genius...) but the fatbike movement comes to mind.... shadetree fatbike enthusiasts been messing with DIY doublewide rims for at least 25 years, and these days, truly fat rubber and decent wide 65mm+ rims are all over the place (but, sadly, too few available in 36h drilling). Before that, we saw a lot of the same stuff going down with 29ers. It seems to me that the bike industry is finally gearing itself up to respond to these changes more rapidly....

I see a lot of innovation and creative approaches being taken to create some homebuilt motorized bikes (both gas and electric), and I've seen some stinky turds of that genre as well. My initial reaction was "maybe this will be the next big thing, where homebuilders can hold some sway on the bike market again!", but the truth is, small-displacement motorbikes, mopeds, and scooters are too accessible, and have too many advantages over bolt-on bicycle kits, for that to gain a lot of real traction. A lot of cool stuff out there, though.

As for this:
...I would look at the Spandex Riders go by in the opposite direction and wondered if they too were told “Cool ride!” by some bystanders – hum, probably not...
I'd actually be surprised if they didn't get some similar compliments, but it'd more than likely be coming from a different set of bystanders. The world don't move, o the beat of just one drum....
 
Personally, I can't wait to see the decals intended to look like surface rust. That's gonna be AWESOME. :21::crazy::21:


....

I saw a coffee can headlight on a Cranbrook at Wallyworld the other day!
 
No. Only a handful could even be said to be in the industry. While there is certainly some awesome innovatioin by some of the talent here, it's mostly re - novation by a stylistic fringe, more often than not of a decidedly retrograde nature.
 
Pics, or it didn't happen. :21: That's hi-LARious. Did they mach the paint to the frame, or did they leave it as Folgers or somesuch?

They just used the smaller plastic Folgers "cans" as is. :D
 
Good point deorman, renovation versus restoration versus modification versus preservation; IMHO we encompass a bit of all these in our builds.

Keeping an old bike on the road while preventing its reincarnation as a beer can takes some effort!
 
As far as mainstreaming the hobby look no further than the landing page for Rat Rod Bikes and there's Chip Foose "tweeking" his cruiser design. Sure looks like an Indian BTR tribute that's been done on a corporate budget. The script on the tank looks a lot like Indian or Sears or Felt for that matter. I'd say I'm sorry for being negative but in this case I don't think I'm wrong. Should say something positive though, sure is, um, ...bright red.
 
Is it my fault that I'm artistic but can still smoke many "cyclists" on my cruiser? Industry's designers won't make as an eclectic bike as we can... sadly watered down ratrods are out there now. Paint by numbers Picasso's. I do disagree on a personal level about performance, bike's gotta roll...



Carl. :android:
 
Just take a look at Jason Pataska's (Petrohead) RRBO6 bike, and compare it to Felt's Deep 6. Jason's bikes images show up all over the internet, but most never bare his name as the builder.
 
Is it my fault that I'm artistic but can still smoke many "cyclists" on my cruiser? Industry's designers won't make as an eclectic bike as we can... sadly watered down ratrods are out there now. Paint by numbers Picasso's. I do disagree on a personal level about performance, bike's gotta roll...



Carl. :android:
Yeah, some of us like a measure of performance in our bikes, but the trend here seems to be the opposite.. Regardless, having the world's fastest cruiser is like being the world's tallest midget. Even my fastest cruiser is painfully slow compared to my roadbike (1988 Fuji Tivoli, w/ go-slow mods like full fenders and an EA3 conversion.) Take the same rider (me) and take the same route (my commute), and the roadbike is faster every time. (Which is not to say i don't pass other roadies whilst cruising on occasion...) Point is, the bulk of these bikes on this forum are pretty slow, relatively speaking.
 
true my 36' Hawthorne "Little Neutrino" is no match for my Cannondale...
but I'd put "The Difference Engine" up against any single speed fixie, and look cooler doin' it.

Carl.
 
Is performance the point behind rat rodding (excluding a fully-blown High-Boy ;) )?

Many of us have at least one road bike or fixie; when we want to go fast we take it, but when we just want to go out on a cruise with our club mates, we take our RR’s. Under this latter context, fast isn’t as important as hang’n-out with the coolest friends we have with the coolest rides around (the proof is in the public’s :) response!)
 

Latest posts

Back
Top