Dealing with Problem ebay seller...

[mos6502]

So I had a small problem with an item, and now dealing with the seller seems to be an even bigger issue.

I've been looking for a Columbia roadster for a loooooong time now. I found a Foremost (Columbia built) 3 speed on ebay, and bought it for the frame and fenders, I'd put my own wheels on etc.

First thing I notice when I am unboxing it is that the frame had been repaired. The seat stays had broken off at the top and had been rewelded. :roll: Of course this wasn't mentioned in the listing at all. So I send the guy a message saying that the frame had been broken and re-welded, and that had not been mentioned in the description - so what does he want to do about it?

He said he didn't notice this when packing it up and asked for a picture. So I sent him one.

It's the same way on the other side, with the paint scorched where the new welds were made. The flat plate which joins the stays behind the seat tube is also bent, and on the other side of the frame you can see where the stay was originally brazed, and the new weld is in a slightly different position. So to me it seems like this is something fairly obvious to notice. However because of how dirty the bike was it was not visible in the auction photos.

Anyway he asks me to call him. I don't want to call him because I don't want to make a long distance call, and I don't see what he would say that he couldn't just type out to me.

Since he hadn't come up with any idea on what he should do about this, I suggest he refund me $20 for the frame since that is what the local bike farm generally charges for old department store frames.

So then he asks for my number and says he can call me so I won't have to call him... ok, but I asked what do you need to call me for when you already have my email and can just type it out?

So he tells me that the conversation is one sided and I'm just telling him what he should do. Even though from the get go I asked what he wanted to do about it. Now I'm starting to get suspicious that he wants to discuss it on the phone so that I don't have anything in writing from him. It's been a few days now and he still hasn't said what he wants to do. If he wants me to return the bike, or if he will give a refund, or a partial refund or if he just doesn't want to do anything at all.

I don't really want to go to paypal with an "item not as described" dispute, but my patience for this run-around business is starting to wear thin. I did not want to ask him to do anything specific, and I do not want to have to resort to threatening negative feedback, or contacting paypal to get any sort of answer out of this guy.

I have very rarely had problems with ebay items, and in the couple of instances I did, the sellers responded quickly and either delivered a satisfactory explanation or a refund.

 

[CCR]

Id rather talk to someone than type to someone. you can accomplish more in a minute long phone call than in a months worth of emails and messages with some people in my opinion. id talk to the guy, figure out what you guys should do about it and follow it up in a message / e-mail to keep yourself covered with your other concerns. good luck man :wink:

 

[kensmurray]

Ebay has buyer protection,if you can't resolve it over the phone. I would just let ebay handle it. I've had a few problems over the yrs. paypal takes a while to get your money back. I've never used buyer protection.
Good Luck,
Kenny

 

[mos6502]

Id rather talk to someone than type to someone. you can accomplish more in a minute long phone call than in a months worth of emails and messages with some people in my opinion. id talk to the guy, figure out what you guys should do about it and follow it up in a message / e-mail to keep yourself covered with your other concerns. good luck man :wink:

If every other seller on ebay can hand out a proper response within a day, I don't see how it would reasonably take this person months of emails to figure out something pretty simple. :| I mean they're either going to do something or they're not going to do something. Their reluctance to say anything about it in email only makes me more suspicious of dealing with them on the phone.

When I've had to make right with buyers, I was able to resolve the issue within a day or two with just a couple of emails. It's not exactly super complicated.

 

[mos6502]

The seller is apparently now trying to find me under different email address and on different websites. Glad I did not talk to him on the phone - guy is obviously a creep.

Edit: decided to leave negative feedback. This is the first time in over five years on ebay I've ever felt compelled to leave negative feedback.

If this had been joe-schmoe selling dad's old bike I could maybe understand not recognizing the welds and signs of a frame that'd been broken. But this guy runs a bike shop - so it's not really excusable. I think anybody with experience in bikes would have noticed this right away - and any honest seller would have mentioned it in the listing.

Then giving me the run around for days instead of answering my question was another annoyance. The last straw was him acting like a creep and saying that since I lived in Georgia it wouldn't be a long distance call anyway (my old address was in Georgia) and him sending me a youtube video and asking me if I was one of the people in it! Because of prior experience with a family member having to deal with an internet stalker/harassment - that was really the last straw. If you can waste your time digging around trying to find stuff out about me, but you cannot spend two minutes making a decision about a refund .

I will not stand for that crap. At all.

 

[Tater]

This is real simple. Send the guy a message through Ebay’s messaging service stating that you will only communicate with him through Ebay’s messaging service in order to document what each of you are saying to the other. If the guy does not comply, file a claim with Ebay and PayPal. You will be required to send the frame back to the guy at your expense, but buyers know that is a possibility if the transaction goes bad as per Ebays terms.

I’ve had it go both ways for me and I’m glad my communication was documented through their message service. I’ve had sellers misrepresent stuff and I’ve had buyers in effect attempt to steal the item I sold them. BTW PayPal will let a buyer steal from a seller.

Good luck and let us know how it pans out.

How’s about posting a link to the auction you bought this frame from so we can all see what this guy is up to.

 

[mos6502]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200759746611?ss ... 485wt_1185

The only picture that really shows the seat stays has the contrast bumped up where it's hard to see what exactly is going on with them - you cannot tell if it is a shadow or rust or what:

All other angles conveniently have the area obscured by the brake cable or cropped out. I'm not saying this was intentional on their part, just that nobody could reasonably be expected from looking at them to tell the frame had been re-welded. That and of course the description itself makes no mention of it.

Unfortunately the only message I sent him on the issue through ebay was replied to by his request to email him a photo of the area. After that we communicated via email.

 

[mos6502]

I decided to open a case and the seller has apparently now got my phone number and left two messages, despite my telling them that I would not talk to them over the phone and not deal with them outside of ebay. Doesn't that constitute harassment? :? (they of course haven't responded via ebay yet).

I'm usually not a snob about dealing with people who have negative feedback, but I should have known better when I saw this seller had multiple recent negative transactions. Sigh.

 

[B607]

I should have known better when I saw this seller had multiple recent negative transactions. Sigh.

:!:

 

[Road Master]

This is real simple. Send the guy a message through Ebay’s messaging service stating that you will only communicate with him through Ebay’s messaging service in order to document what each of you are saying to the other. If the guy does not comply, file a claim with Ebay and PayPal. You will be required to send the frame back to the guy at your expense, but buyers know that is a possibility if the transaction goes bad as per Ebays terms.

I’ve had it go both ways for me and I’m glad my communication was documented through their message service. I’ve had sellers misrepresent stuff and I’ve had buyers in effect attempt to steal the item I sold them. BTW PayPal will let a buyer steal from a seller.

Good luck and let us know how it pans out.

How’s about posting a link to the auction you bought this frame from so we can all see what this guy is up to.

For your own protection keep all communications documented. Ebay/Paypal will back YOU all the way. Just file a claim and be done with it. If you and the seller don't reach a mutually satisfying conclusion about the FRAME, simply state that to ebay and they will take care of it. It's not worth this much stress! Robert

 

[ozzmonaut]

I don't like talking on the phone for stuff like that either. People will use it as a chance to try and gauge you and gain the upper hand. I'd like to point out that he describes it multiple times as a ladies bike. That gave me a laugh.

 

[Ratfink1962]

just do a paypal dispute and be done with it.

they will tie up his account until the issue is resolved. so if he sells quite a bit on eBay.... that should motivate him to resolve the issue.

 

[mos6502]

The ebay description does say "as is". To me this says two things--#1 You bought it, regardless of condition. #2 When a description is vague and pictures are bad, and they say "as is", expect the worst! I do hope you resolve the problem, but we all should learn from your experience.

"as-is" does not free the seller from describing the item honestly. If I sell a car "as is" and I only give the buyer a picture of the front of the car, but the rear end is totalled - and I never mention that - that'd be dishonest on my part.

I sell everything "as is" on ebay to keep people from assuming the condition is better than I describe it to be. But even so if I mail something to somebody and they find that it has some fault I missed, I will work with them to make up for it. Recently I sold a camera lens on ebay, and the buyer pointed out there was a screw missing. I didn't notice a screw missing, and there was no photo in the auction showing a screw missing - but when I looked over all the photos I took (ones not in the auction), indeed there was a missing screw. I gave them a small partial refund and apologized for missing it. They were happy, I was happy, they left me good feedback.

If I had sold it as is and they had come and bought it in person, that'd be a different story - but buying online the buyer only has the seller's word to go by. If the seller is dishonest or inaccurate in their description then it's entirely the seller's fault.

Anyway, in this case the guy's tone changed once I opened the dispute. He stopped giving me the run around, although he kept insisting I call him. :roll: I now have a partial refund on its way. I would have been fine with even less than I am getting - but the guy just seemed incapable of thinking of offering his own ideas on a refund. I kept repeatedly asking him what value he had in mind giving him an opportunity to throw out what he thought he would be appropriate and he repeatedly refused to say anything on the matter, and finally just gave me the 50% I threw out there (on the condition I remove my negative feedback). :|
If he had just said even $10 I would have taken it. If he would have taken the frame back and let me keep the fenders, I would have taken it. The man's absolute refusal to discuss it was mind boggling. I've never dealt with anybody this absurd, and I've done business with a lot of characters.

I'd like to point out that he describes it multiple times as a ladies bike. That gave me a laugh.

Yeah actually, I was remembering that when I was thinking "how could somebody who runs a bike shop not see an obvious frame repair like this?" - then I thought - well he did also say it was a lady's bike for some reason. I don't know what kind of "bike shop" it must be, but I'm kind of scared of the possibilities.

 

[CCR]

The ebay description does say "as is". To me this says two things--#1 You bought it, regardless of condition. #2 When a description is vague and pictures are bad, and they say "as is", expect the worst! I do hope you resolve the problem, but we all should learn from your experience.

I pretty much agree with ceebee, even the mentioned "ladies" bike in the listing should let this you know this guy probably doesnt know what he's talking about or is up to something. It does look like the picture is doctor'd up like you've pointed out making me think this guys intention was to pull one over on somebody in the first place. Get a refund man

 

[mos6502]

Well every thing is resolved. That it wasn't described properly was not a big deal to me. I just sent them a message saying hey you didn't mention this and the photos didn't show this, do you want to do anything about it? I didn't ask for a refund (until three emails in when he still hadn't actually said anything about it) nor did I ask if I could return it. What was a big deal was the way the seller acted through all of this.

I wouldn't have cared too much if he had just said no up front... but then he started insisting I call him and saying all this weird stuff instead of just giving an answer. :| Maybe he really was trying to pull one over and refused to say anything because he didn't want to accidentally admit it or something. His whole reaction was very odd and frankly baffling, I felt like I was dealing with a 13 year old (but I've known kids with more tact than this too).

Lesson learned I guess. :shock: