Derailer Adjustment Question

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I'm helping out a friend, giving his old MTB a cleanup/tuneup.

I'm a total newbie as far as adjusting derailers is concerned. This one is a low end Shimano as far as I can determine.

When I got the bike the rear derailer would not shift to the largest cassette ring. In my klutzing around it's now worse! Surprise!

Yep, I read and printed out the Sheldon Brown instructions this morning, and it looks like I have the cable length out of adjustment, so that should not be too hard.

This derailer has a nut/clamp at the derailer end of the cable. And, yes I changed it some.

My question is: how do you set the initial cable length, so that you can fine adjust with the barrell adjusters at the derailer and the shifter?

If the Sheldon Brown discussion tells how to do this, I'm missing it.

Anyway, thanks a ton for any expert advice!
 
Undo the cable so the derailer rest in the outboard position. Then fasten the cable so it is tight.
 
what is "outboard position" - without any pull on the cable?

should I have the shifter index in any particular gear?

sorry to be so dense, and THANKS!
 
Have the gear indicator(shifter) in the highest gear (7,8,9). The derailer should be in the outboard(as far out towards the dropouts) position when the cable is disconnected.
 
Details, details. Hand lever adjusters all the way in. Both ends on small sprocket with outside of front cage adjusted to almost but not quite touching chain, screw barrel adj (if it has one) all the way in and then out 1/2 turn, de-slack cable. Adjust rear derailleur so the chain appears in alignment between cog and upper idler wheel. With the cable loose, push the derailleur on to larger cogs, while manually turning crank, then release to determine that it will return to the small cog. If not, adjust it out 'til it falls, you should still be cranking it. Barrel in, 1/2 turn out, de-slack cable. Some apps may require NO turns out, or a little more than 1/2. Your cables should now be close enough to tune in with the barrels, but chain length and large cog stop adjustment still needs to be done. Front small cog stop may also need to be tightened, if it shifts past the inner ring when the rear is on the large ring. Did I mention turning the bike over or mounting in a work stand so you can crank it? :mrgreen:
 
If it still won't work right after all this, find the one gear that you can live with and leave it. If it won't stay in that gear, get the biggest pair of pliers you have and bend the derailler until it stays in the "good" gear. Don't be afraid to use a hammer to get the alignment perfect. :D
 
Thank you one and all. This gives me some good ideas of what to do to get it back to "normal".

Wildcat, I don't think this one was bent, as it shifted to all but one ring before I started futzing with it.
It will go back without any physical persuasion, I think. I have another MTB of my own that was bent major (into the spokes), and I've used your techniques to get it back to semi-OK-ness. :D

Maybe what I learn here will apply to my own bike. It looks GREAT, it was in an obvious wreck. I've got it close to being ready to be flipped.
 
Whatever you do, don't try adjusting it with the bike flipped upside down you'll probably never get it quite right. The bike needs to be hanging from a stand right side up. Otherwise the rear derailleur will not hang in its normal position, it's a slight position change but it makes a difference .
 
just went thru this myself last weekend, so i gotta tell ya, before you even try to adjust it, make sure the hanger isnt bent or damaged. otherwise, its like trying to adjust rim brakes with a bent wheel. also, shimanos website has printable directions in about 20 languages or so. the same as the one that came with my new derailler.
 
socal_jack said:
Whatever you do, don't try adjusting it with the bike flipped upside down you'll probably never get it quite right. The bike needs to be hanging from a stand right side up. Otherwise the rear derailleur will not hang in its normal position, it's a slight position change but it makes a difference .
In terms of fine tuning stop adjustments and indexing, even using a stand is imperfect. Actual riding may be necessary to get things just so. In terms of setting initial cable tension, flipping the bike will work just fine.
 
Good point about the hanger they bend more than one would think, check for proper chain length as well. The Shimano site does have an excellent techdocs area, big bonus is you can zoom the online version the foldout stuff that comes with their parts is like 6pt legal font.

X-RAY said:
just went thru this myself last weekend, so i gotta tell ya, before you even try to adjust it, make sure the hanger isnt bent or damaged. otherwise, its like trying to adjust rim brakes with a bent wheel. also, shimanos website has printable directions in about 20 languages or so. the same as the one that came with my new derailler.

Never had a problem from a stand, YMMV though. However, setting the initial cable/shifter stops with the bike flipped upside down can lead to a series of seemingly neverending adjustments.

.
deorman said:
socal_jack said:
Whatever you do, don't try adjusting it with the bike flipped upside down you'll probably never get it quite right. The bike needs to be hanging from a stand right side up. Otherwise the rear derailleur will not hang in its normal position, it's a slight position change but it makes a difference .
In terms of fine tuning stop adjustments and indexing, even using a stand is imperfect. Actual riding may be necessary to get things just so. In terms of setting initial cable tension, flipping the bike will work just fine.
 
Yeah, it's been quite a while since I had to do anything more complicated than just eyeball them, usually a little handle barrel (slack) adjustment for indexers on the first ride. I never really had much trouble with them, unless they were pre-damaged or really worn out junk. If they're any good, once their set, you really shouldn't have to do any thing beyond occasional slack adjustment. My only geared bike at the moment is friction lever, a lot simpler. If you have a tendency to bend the cages, you might try one of those spring loaded deals like on a Sting Ray/Fastback stick. I've also seen them on some touring bikes, even on the brakes :? .
 
well, thanks once again everyone.

I found something that got me back in the ballpark.

The cable length screw up was the problem.

I put the chain on the middle chain ring on the front, shifted the rear index to 3, the middle position, put the chain on the proper cog and eye balled it.

The derailer was way off to one side. I loosened the cable, lined the derailer up with the cog and tightened the cable down.

Not perfect, but it at least shifted as well as when I got the bike.

The owner picked it up and told me the bike never was "right" from day one.

Thanks for all the input, great help!

Back to Coaster Brakes!
 
Sounds like you've got the problem solved but though i'd share. You basically have four adjustments for shifing duties. Cable tension, lower limit and upper limit screws and chain wrap. Rarely is chain wrap an issue, its th screw that allows the deraleur to swing forwar and rearward, the adjustment screw is loated on the backside of the deraleur where is mates with the hanger (on the frame).

There are two small screws on the back of the deraleur, marked L & H. These are the screws that limit the lateral travel of the deraleur. "H" is the high gear / outer gear limiter (small cog, say "Houter" to represent the outer cogs), and "L" is the low gear limit (near the spokes , say "Linner" to represent the inner gogs).

On initial new bike set up or new cable installs i do the following. Put the bike in a stand or find some way to support it off its wheels.

With the bike (let's assume a mountain bike with a tripple front), shift into the middle ring front and small cog in the rear.

Screw the cable micro tensioners all the way in, then turn them back out 2-3 turns. There should be one of these on the deraleur and possibly one on the shifter (low end bikes may not have a micro adjuster on the shifter).

Install the cable and housing (no need to put any more than finger tension on the cable at this time). All your housing lengths should allow for easy curves and full handle bar travel. No kinks at the cable guides, shifter or deraleur. Couple of drops of lube in the housing is all you need. Trim the cable at 2"-3" at the deraleur. Make sure your housing cuts are clean, sometimes the metal coil stuff can bend over and interfere with smooth cable travel, you can snip it off with a pair of electrical wire snips, flat file or carefully use a grinding wheel.

While turning the cranks, grab and pull on the rear shift cable so the bike shifts to the low gear (big cog). Once it has upshifted you can stop pedaling. Pull hard (but don't kill it) 3 or four times on the cable, this will help seat the housing into the guides. Re-tension the cable at the deraleur to take up the slack.

Now, while turning the cranks, try shifting up and down (rear) just the first couple of gears.

* If there is hesitation shifting up to larger cogs, then the cable is slack. Using 1/4 turns, take up tension until you have a nice crisp upshift. If there is heistation shifting to smaller gogs, there is too much tension, so let it out by 1/4 turns.

Now that you have good shifing you can mess with the limit screws. Turn in the "H" screw by 1/4 or 1/8th turns and keep shifting down into that small cog. when the downshifting starts to hang up its time to back it out a little. You may need to fine tune the cable tension if you have to make big changes to the "H" screw.

Now shift to the big front ring and try the rear outer gears again. make adjustments as necessary.

Now shift to the small front ring and go through the same process with the large rear gogs using the "L" screw to limit the rear deraleur travel.

Please note: I grew up without "idiot lights" AKA gear indicators so i probably have my high gear, low gear comments all mixed up but i can tune up a bike just the same. When i say downshifting, the mechanical engineer in me visualizes the chain moving down the cogs, larger to smaller. However if you think if it like you would shifting a car or motorcycle, you would be downshifting to slow down not speed up.:D Poe-Tay-Toe, Po-Tat-To, confused yet.

Now if all else fails and you just cant get it to shift well there could be several other issues at play:

1. Shifter indents are worn out (very common with grip shift as the metal spring will wear on the plastic notches.
2. The deraleur piviots are worn out.
3. Excessive drivetrain wear, chain or cogs.
4. The deraleur hanger is bent. you can try and eyeball it but proper alignment really takes the tool.
5. The bike has an 8 speed cascette and a 7 speed shifter (just went through this last weekend).
 

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