Freemantle Highway Destroyed

[SwissGuy]

I'd be interested in what you European guys are seeing in the news about this disaster.

in one word: Nothing!

 

[Ulu]

in one word: Nothing!

As I suspected, we do have important things to discuss.

I didn’t see anything about Australian battery fires in the US news. I had to look at news from Australia.

 

[Ulu]

.....because shipping used batteries was so expensive back to manufacturer they tended to accumulate in shipping containers converted to storage.....

Proper Disposal and recycling almost seems like a myth here. There’s absolutely no publicity here on how that is proceeding. I think it’s possibly because all of that stuff gets shipped out of state for reprocessing.

But evidently we’re not just chucking this in the landfill! Thank goodness.

The video that I watched shows them shredding these batteries up Into bits of contaminated plastic and metal, while in a liquid bath, making an inert slurry they can separate and filter.

But you have to get those batteries to the re-processing plant without setting them off. I watched them ship in a car battery, which is the size of the floor of the car of course, in a big wooden crate.

It Hardly seems like a fire safe procedure to me, and you certainly wouldn’t ship any damaged batteries like that.

 

[Kevin B]

 

[Cycledelic68]

Somthing related

'Green' Goods Get Red Flags
Wall Street Journal
https://www.wsj.com › articles
Apr 24, 2010 — Rash of Earth-Friendly Claims Spurs Rising Number of Lawsuits and FTC Actions. By. Vanessa O'Connell.

 

[Ulu]

I’m afraid there’s going to be a lot of misinformation about the Luton car park fire. And this one cannot be blamed on a Tesla.

Electric vehicle fans were trying to claim that the car which set off the fire was powered by diesel, and it was clearly not plugged into an electric charger at the time of the fire. (Electric car chargers were located on the floor above.)

However, the video proves it was not just a diesel fire which was the problem. There wasn’t nearly enough black smoke indicating burning diesel fuel, but there were jets of white hot flame shooting out from below the seats of the car, like a blow torch: gas under pressure.

Smarter people than I have identified the flaming vehicle as a hybrid electric diesel made by Range Rover (Or whoever owns them now.)

The dramatic collapse of the car park was caught on video, as of course nothing could be done to put it out once this (and likely other lithium vehicles) were involved.

I heard over 1000 cars were damaged, and no one knows whether the building can be repaired.

 

[Ulu]

Lithium primary batteries have been used for years in mining drill rigs being sent down the pipe to power sensors etc. Researching and reading the Safety Data sheets confirmed that if they dropped too much voltage they were in danger of self starting combustion. And will continue to burn. Scary thing was because shipping used batteries was so expensive back to manufacturer they tended to accumulate in shipping containers converted to storage.

Certainly makes rebuilding and modifying bikes one of the most green things we can be doing.

It’s absolutely greener than what is going on in virtually all other transportation.

Especially when you consider how long a bicycle can last.

(Unless your kids are into BMX…)

Fortunately, mining is one of those Occupations where people are keenly aware of the dangers at all times. You have well-trained operators and people looking over the gear. If the equipment becomes dodgy, you don’t just shrug your shoulders and carry-on.

I remember it said back in the 70s that modern driving was the occupation of distracted slumbering people with one idle finger on the steering wheel. Those were the years where a Buick or an Oldsmobile became 19 feet long because a Cadillac had been 20 feet.

I have already come to the conclusion that these vehicles are not suitable for the careless inhabitants of modern wealthy society. The people most likely to purchase them, of course.

 

[Cycledelic68]

Dewalt Battery Lawn Mower Catches Fire At Largest OPE Tradeshow in The World (Equip Expo)

 

[Ulu]

Fire is a big deal here in California, as I’m sure you have heard. There have been some devastating wildfires here over the past decade. As a state, it’s something we need to be very concerned about when we license various products for sale.

That mower fire happened in Louisville Kentucky, where my parents lived before I was born. The EquipExpo is a big competitor to California’s Tulare Farm show.

I should go this coming year and see what kind of electrofornication they’re trying to bring to the Ag industry.

Here in the central San Joaquin there is nothing bigger than agriculture. We grow 25% of the food produced by the United States. Lots of farmers.

Not me though. Strictly ornamental gardening, and some Redwood trees I planted 20 years ago.

We live in the desert and you have to irrigate these things. I’ve been watering them for 20 years.

My biggest concern for these trees is fire, because idiots around here are shooting rockets on the Fourth of July. That’s the driest time of year & most dangerous.

Wildfires in California have been serious over recent decades, and the last thing we need is more unquenchable battery fires.

 

[Ulu]

BTW, the new electric Ford pickup is a flop. Dealer’s truck orders were canceled by the factory, and it is recalling the trucks already sold.

 

[Cycledelic68]

Variety of Electric Vehicles Sparked First EVent Here
https://www.greenbeltnewsreview.com...f-electric-vehicles-sparked-first-event-here/
New Charging Stations Open For Plug-in Cars in Greenbelt
https://www.greenbeltnewsreview.com...-stations-open-for-plug-in-cars-in-greenbelt/
EVs on page 13
https://www.greenbeltnewsreview.com/issues/GNR20231012.pdf
Why I Left Greenpeace: A Co-Founder's Perspective on Greenpeace's Antihuman Stances, Patrick Moore


Is There Really a Climate Emergency?


Global warming: why you should not worry


The experts explain the global warming myth: Richard Lindzen


Conversation with global warming skeptic Anthony Watts


Judith Curry: "Relax, there is no climate emergency!"

 

[Ulu]

Oh geez… Look what I’ve started now.

 

[Cycledelic68]

I saw this on TV recently. An exercycle-like battery recharging system. Its expensive. I've seen home brew exercycle generator systems on the internet and on youtube before.
https://www.tukasev.com/en/

 

[Ulu]

Well the new Ford scores 4/100 on reliability. Number one worst vehicle in America.

This is an all electric battery powered vehicle which is supposed to be very reliable because there’s so few moving parts.

It turns out that they are so unreliable every one of them is being recalled, and production halted.

Evidently, mechanical parts can be more reliable than electronic parts? Go figure.

People would not be surprised if they saw as many failed computer boards as I have in my working life. A really terrific PC, reduced to garbage by $0.19 components that somebody replaced with low quality counterfeit components to save $.

What we don’t know about the Ford recall is this: is it because of bad parts, or about a bad design?

 

[Ulu]

I saw this on TV recently. An exercycle-like battery recharging system. Its expensive. I've seen home brew exercycle generator systems on the internet and on youtube before.
https://www.tukasev.com/en/

I finally watched this video, and it appears to me they are heavily pandering to the well-to-do people who are very concerned about their aesthetic environment. Zero-to-low on tech cred exhibited, but lots of good-vibe lingo.

Otherwise they don’t give me any concrete reason to judge this machine.

You know it wasn’t an engineer directing this exhibition, when they refer to colored plastic made from crude oil as “vegan leather”.

Massive bonus points for the epic legal dept greenwashing of globally hated giant corporate oil products (like this synthetic petro-hide) as so wonderfully “vegan”.

I was hoping to hear some explanation of efficiency, storage capacity, and recharge time. Instead I got a dissertation on how to make it match your couch in 3D simulations.

 

[Ulu]

It's going to cost some money to make batteries safer, and the insurance industry is going to start demanding it. This will not decrease the cost of electric cars, and from what I read in the new report out of Texas, they are already subsidized at an alarming cost.

https://www.texaspolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023-10-TrueCostofEVs-BennettIsaac.pdf
From the Conclusions page:

Our conservative estimate is that the average EV accrues $48,698 in subsidies and $4,569 in extra charging and electricity costs over a 10-year period, for a total cost of $53,267, or $16.12 per equivalent gallon of gasoline9 . Without increased and sustained government favors, EVs will remain more expensive than ICEVs for many years to come. Hence why, even with these subsidies, EVs have been challenging for dealers to sell . . . .

They also report that "during the 10-year period from 2013-2022, 6.6% of BEVs in operation were pulled out of commission. During the same period, just 5.2% of combustion vehicles left the fleet”

The great lure of EVs being less trouble than gasoline cars has turned sour on us. They are less reliable and less repairable.

 

[Kevin B]

You know it wasn’t an engineer directing this exhibition, when they refer to colored plastic made from crude oil as “vegan leather”.

Massive bonus points for the epic legal dept greenwashing of globally hated giant corporate oil products (like this synthetic petro-hide) as so wonderfully “vegan."

Good observation Ulu. That same word play is used in so much green hype. I find it hard to believe the greenies when so many products from margarine to chewing gum are packaged in so much plastic today. Not too long ago it was paper. If it isn't crude oil it's trees.

 

[Cycledelic68]

Electric bus bursts into flames, sets nearby vehicles on fire in China​

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/ors...-wind-projects-takes-4-billion-writedown.html

 

[Ulu]

Good observation Ulu. That same word play is used in so much green hype. I find it hard to believe the greenies when so many products from margarine to chewing gum are packaged in so much plastic today. Not too long ago it was paper. If it isn't crude oil it's trees.

Well you have to combust/distill those trees to get the oil out of them, which is harder than pumping oil out of the ground. It’s a different oil but for so many things it works the same.

Considering the amount of open land in this world, I think it’s a shame that we don’t plant more trees. I own seven trees, but I still consider myself tree deprived, because I live in the center of the worlds greatest Orchard land.

 

[Ulu]

Electric bus bursts into flames, sets nearby vehicles on fire in China​

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/ors...-wind-projects-takes-4-billion-writedown.html

I don’t know what the story was here, but the biggest thing that bothers me about batteries is they all run down. They get weak with time and use.

If you overcharge a lithium battery it can catch fire, but the same thing is true if you let it drop too low in charge. Evidently the chemistry changes and the battery can start heating up, even though you thought it was basically dead.

Unlike lead batteries, which can operate through a wide variety of voltages without damage, lithium batteries have a very narrow operating range, and if they are off by one volt you could have problems.

The lead battery in the ordinary car can be anywhere from about 11 to 14 V, and the car can still start & operate normally, plus recharge the battery.

It can drop to zero, and the danger of combustion reduces to zero. This is not true of modern lithium car batteries. They all have cooling and also computerized voltage regulators or voltage management systems, that kick in even when you’re not driving the car.

Of course anyone who’s ever used any Chinese computer will tell you they are stone ax reliable, right? You can bet your life on those computers working correctly.

This is such an important part of an electric vehicle that is the cause of many fires, in my opinion. I’ve never owned an electric car, but I have used & built computers for many years.

There was a period of time where huge numbers of poor quality Chinese capacitors went into computers destined for America. All of those computers became troublesome and failed early due to poor voltage regulation.

It was right after that we started seeing motherboards claiming “military grade capacitors”.

In case anybody wonders, a capacitor is like a little battery that can store and return an electric charge. Actually some of them are very large, but the ones you normally come into contact are the size of a pill bottle or smaller.

They can do this much faster than any battery, but they do get old. Cheap ones get old real fast, and you’ll see them pop open with black tar coming out. They have gotten hot and melted the insulation.

They are important to every type of electronic circuit, and in our case, most importantly voltage control.

When the capacitors on those computer motherboards burst, the chips started getting the wrong voltage, and computers would crash. They would often recover after the chips cooled off, and would run correctly again until the computer got hot. Eventually they wouldn’t run at all…

So my point is that your electric charging circuitry of your electric car may be faulty and you might not realize it because everything works “normally” again after it cools off.

You would not, however, find it normal when the car quit running for no reason, or started pouring out smoke.

Finally, I will add this in my cautions about getting what you wish for in this world. I fixed my first television when I was 13, and I built my first radio kit when I was 14. I built electric calculator from a kit when I was 15. I rewired my Ford automobile when I was 16. I still do the stuff.

Throughout all this time, and also as espoused by Motors manual of automotive repair, the electricals are the most mystifying part of a vehicle, to owners and mechanics both.

If you want a good job and you are not afraid to study, study electricity and electronics. I not only had jobs, I often had my choice. I not only crawled around under cars, I designed the entire electrical systems on the drawing board. In my 40s I started building personal computers and in my 50s I was building networks.

Anyhow, the world is determined to go on this electric green march in the future. Modern complex systems are only designable with computers.

The same thing that happened with electronics and automobiles has now happened to electronics and bicycle mechanics. Even if BEVs go the way of the dinosaurs, this will not change in the near future.

People who can’t afford a car or don’t find one useful enough for their situation are buying these electric bicycles, and someone will have to fix them.