general bicycle IDing

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so ive seen things posted like "definitely murray made bike" or "looks to be a columbia". what are some of the distinct characters that give away what make a bicycle is? i know schwinns are easily recognizable by their smooth fillet brazes. ive noticed that when people say its a murray they usually have longer pointy dropouts. ive only been in the vintage bicycle world for about a year. and im solo :cry: . most of my friends sit around inside. so everything i know i know from reading here :D . if you have and knowledge/pics you would like to share post um up! thanks guys!
 
There are some little tricks to the trade, and a lot of it is just experience, hands on work with these rolling antiques.

If you have a part of the bike world you're really drawn too, such as Schwinns, it'll be helpful to look at a lot of the sales catalogs and become familiar with the serial numbering system, and if nothing else the three locations Schwinns are stamped to give you a general idea of the date.

If it's 20" classic bikes in general, the New England Musclebike site will be a huge help, with their extensively documented collection. http://www.nemusclebikes.com

For other brands of 20" bikes besides Schwinn, look up Railrider's (Raleigh Ron's) Muscle Bike Forums.

The other references here will certainly get you started in the right direction.

For specific questions with much older bikes, especially prewar bikes, you might want to look for reference books on the subject. There are general ones and Schwinn ones, and Schwinn comes up so often because for a long time they were 1/2 of the market of US bicycles.

Sadly the US bicycle building industry is down to just a few proud companies, and the only one I know of that does not build high end road bikes, is Worksman: http://www.worksmancycles.com (very cool bikes, people, website)

For some of these other common, but sometimes called off-brands, there are some generalizations that apply. There is a timeline and relationship between the names Murray, Sears, JC Higgins, and CLeveland Welding Company. CWC built a lot of bike frames that were badged for Sears. Prior to 1964 they were sold at Sears as JC Higgins brand. Essentially identical bikes. Murray (sometimes you'll find wheels stamped M O Mfg for Murray Ohio Manufacturing) would market bikes under their own brand name to department stores and small shops and distributors across the country. Sometimes other badges appeared on these for other store brands: my friend owns a lovely 1959 Fleetwing men's middleweight tank bike with M decals and CWC stamps on it.

For identification, as you've noted these Murray/CWC/JCH/Sears bikes have pointy rear dropouts, and if fitted with a springer front fork will have a distinctive rat-trap design with short trailing arms for the wheel and truss-type rods up to the spring. There are many variations all using the common spaceliner type of frames.

Likewise bicycles built by Columbia (Westfield Mass) will feature a rear frame with a rounded hoop over the rear tire, instead of straight chainstays going all the way up to the seat. And for instance a Ross built bike (CBC in New York) will often have twin small diameter tubes instead of a single top-tube.

But of course, there are as many exceptions as there are bikes that meet these characteristics. I have a Ross "europa" and a few Columbia 3-speeds that would be difficult to distinguish if they were stripped down to just a frame. And if you find a Columbia Thunderbolt, you just might wonder "Who made THAT? And WHY?"

Good thing is that these types of forums allow you to quickly post a couple pictures, ask some questions, and receive knowledgeable advice from people who really do know their bikes- hang around here and pretty soon, you'll know too!

--Rob







thesuicideride said:
so ive seen things posted like "definitely murray made bike" or "looks to be a columbia". what are some of the distinct characters that give away what make a bicycle is? i know schwinns are easily recognizable by their smooth fillet brazes. ive noticed that when people say its a murray they usually have longer pointy dropouts. ive only been in the vintage bicycle world for about a year. and im solo :cry: . most of my friends sit around inside. so everything i know i know from reading here :D . if you have and knowledge/pics you would like to share post um up! thanks guys!
 
There is a timeline and relationship between the names Murray, Sears, JC Higgins, and CLeveland Welding Company. CWC built a lot of bike frames that were badged for Sears. Prior to 1964 they were sold at Sears as JC Higgins brand.

Hi Rob, Your advice is spot on but since the subject is about identifying bikes and their manufacturers I felt the need to correct one thing.

Sears drew from many sources for their Elgin and J.C. Higgins branded lines but the Cleveland Welding Company was not one of them during the companie's Cleveland tenure (1935-1956).

AMF purchased the company in 1951 and moved bicycle production to Little Rock Arkansas in 1956. I am also not aware of any AMF/CWC or AMF bicycles ever being produced for Sears during the 1950’s or early 60's. Sears may have used AMF as a supplier in the mid 1960’s and beyond, a period I am less familiar with.

Sear did draw from many sources for their Elgin and J.C. Higgins branded lines

Westfield Manufacturing was the predominant supplier to Sears in the early and mid 1930’s with Sears splitting orders between Westfield and Murray Ohio in the late prewar period. Sears Elgins were also produced in small numbers by Monark and Snyder.

After WW2 Sears predominantly used Murray Ohio as their bike source with bikes also coming in smaller numbers from Monark, Westfield, Stelber and I believe even a few Huffmans.

Steyr/Puch of Austria supplied most of the JC Higgins and Sears 3-Speed and light-weight models (and some middle-weight models) during the fifties and into the 1960’s.

Cleveland Welding was one of the larger American companies in the bicycle production industry and produced the Roadmaster line as their in-house brand along with several other branded lines for distributors. Montgomery Ward, Western Autos, and Gambles were among their larger customers.
 
There are quite a few books on the subject, the first wave were published by NBJ, aka Newsletter By John. Well, books being a relative term, they're spiral bound, and mostly photocopies of original ads and lit., and original bikes. There also were several published by Motorbooks International, "How to restore your collector bike" is a must have! Then there's Evolution of the Bicycle, vols. 1 & 2, which have a ton of good info, and also several non original and misidentified bikes. Don't forget the two new books courtesy of Classic Bicycle News, featurinf Prewar Westfield/Columbia, and Snyder/Rollfast. These are mostly color, and much higher quality than the NBJ stuff. After leafing thru these a few thousand times, you begin to see the subtle differences between companies' frames. Tough to keep all that info organized in the brain though!!! :shock: Personally, I keep my books next to my computer, since someone asks "what is it" regularly. I like being helpful, but I definitely don't claim to know everything!! :mrgreen: ~Adam
 
yeah, ive definatly learned my brands over the last year. most easily identifiable about a murray built bike is it's chainring that has almost never changed much, if at all since the 50's. a bike has that chainring, good chance its a murray, jchiggins or western flyer (for example).

also knowing who's frames share different names. i won't even try to go any further with this one. easiest parts are chainring, chain/seatstay +dropout shapes and features/shapes, forks and chainguards. tanks also if it applies to the bike.
 
awesome replies guys! :D this is the kind of info i was hoping for. not one specific bicycle to ID but personal characteristics about different companies that help it stand out from others. i'd like to be able to look at a bike missing the head badge or anything with a name on it and be like "yep shes a columbia" :lol: :lol:.
 
I hesitate to suggest defining year or brand by sprockets, I know I'm not the only guy to have swapped a hundred or so. Drop outs and bottom brackets are usually where I look first.
 

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