I learned something today about building wheels

[user 135]

I am in the processing of add a disc brake on one of my rats(Hornet). The main purpose is for our 2600ft vertical bomb run. As the coaster brakes just don't cut it. So I purchase a cheap disc rim that was missing alot of spokes.. Replaces the spokes and tried to dish and tension the spokes. I though it was okay until I hit the brakes. The disc brakes put a lot of pressure on the hub. My build job quick went bad. I thing I may have to take it in to be fixed.

My lacing skills will be limited to coaster brakes and regular front hubs. Any thing else will go to the shop.

 

[xddorox]

Cman, have you tried adding tension to your spokes?

 

[user 135]

I thought they were tight. They were squeaking and turning back. I may try to have a another try at them. My previous wheels(4) have been okay. This is more complex without having the proper tools. I understand dishing in concept and the wheel looked okay before I hit the brakes.

 

[OUTLAW]

did ya use a dishing tool ? the shop where i work the guys know how to build a wheel but when i asked em if they used a dishing tool they didn't know what that was. so i reached over to the bench and grabed it and you should of seen there faces. they said oh didn't know what that was for. lol. really not funny. i also asked em if they use the tensioning tool. whats that? if ya don't know what your doing then leave it alone. our cruising wheels are pretty simple to do when your not going fast but when ya syart to run fast ya better know what your doing. my 2c's for the day.

Outlaw 8)

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Ok im confused ....If I want to go fast I get on my Valkyrie...12:40's through the quarter. Seems like bikes are for just poking along enjoying the scenery. Why would anybody want to expend that much energy on a bike just to make it go fast????? :roll: :roll:

 

[SkidMark]

Well, of course anyone can go fast with a 100hp between their legs. To do it with human power is quite another thing.

Also, some people enjoy building wheels, and working on bikes in general.

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Without a picture of the wheel showing how it was laced, it's hard to say what went wrong. I always get confused about whether inbound/outbound spokes are supposed to be leading or trailing. Also, the last cross should be laced under ( for cross 3 it's over, over, under for instance), that makes the wheel much stronger.

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Don't get me wrong I love building wheels. Shoot I take them apart because its easier to clean the rims without all the spokes in the way. As far as love working on bikes I'm in there with ya....just guess I'm too old to want to go real fast on one. :wink:

 

[GodHatesCleveland]

As an engineer I can tell you that no matter what the medium is, you can almost never get it right the first time. Or at least, the more complicated the medium, or the greater the amount it will be stressed, the lesser the chances of getting it right the first time. Don't give up but instead use the experience to advance your knowledge. If you go with a LBS, and they almost always deserve the business, see if they are willing to share their knowledge with you as they repair the wheel. If they're a good LBS they will.

But if you take the wheel in to be fixed, you might be taking it to someone with more or less experience than you with dishing the wheel. Seriously, their last guy could have quit and the store may have brought in somebody, anybody, just to fill the gap. Given a 2600 foot bomb run you should check out the repair man's qualifications ahead of time. And given a 2600 foot bomb run, they should understand that you want to make sure it's done right. And if they're true bicycle enthusiasts who put ideas before dollars, they won't mind if you ask to be there when they dish the wheel and show you all their secrets. Guys like us tend to be pretty good LBS customers anyway, it's not like they'll lose business.

 

[user 135]

Ok im confused ....If I want to go fast I get on my Valkyrie...12:40's through the quarter. Seems like bikes are for just poking along enjoying the scenery. Why would anybody want to expend that much energy on a bike just to make it go fast????? :roll: :roll:

The scenery is quite nice. The hills just make it go by faster.

Without a picture of the wheel showing how it was laced, it's hard to say what went wrong. I always get confused about whether inbound/outbound spokes are supposed to be leading or trailing. Also, the last cross should be laced under ( for cross 3 it's over, over, under for instance), that makes the wheel much stronger.

The wheel was previously laced, I just replaced 5 or six spokes. But the wheels was messed up when I bought it for 8 bucks. I guess you get what you pay for. The lace pattern is fine and the dish is pretty good. I just didnt have enough tension on the non disc(right) side. When I applied the brakes, the rim moved to the left. I will try again.

As an engineer I can tell you that no matter what the medium is, you can almost never get it right the first time. Or at least, the more complicated the medium, or the greater the amount it will be stressed, the lesser the chances of getting it right the first time. Don't give up but instead use the experience to advance your knowledge..

Yeh, Just alot different than building simple wheel. The disc puts alot more stress at the hub. I have lots of time to try again. It would be fun to learn from somebody else , instead of my self taught skills. Our bike coop is just starting and there are no classes yet.

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Hey Cman if your looking for functionality and not a thing of beauty I have several of those worksman front wheels with a drum brake. You pay shipping and ill send ya one. I think they are rated for jumping bikes off a cliff. They use those really big spokes so you would have to have the whole rim and everything. :roll:

 

[socal_jack]

You could probably could use one of those Park spoke tension meter tools, they give some tension ranges to shoot for depending what you're purpose for building the wheel(road, mtb etc). Between that and getting the tension ratio between the 2 sides of the dished wheel right will be pretty important.

On my mountain bike after about a year of use, I started blowing spokes on the rear wheel and replacing one at time, finally just had to have the whole thing respoked. So even a factory build can go bad if the spoke tension gets out of whack. Just replaced with a new wheelset a couple of months ago with Sun-Ringle ADD, what a difference.

 

[user 135]

Hey Cman if your looking for functionality and not a thing of beauty I have several of those worksman front wheels with a drum brake. You pay shipping and ill send ya one. I think they are rated for jumping bikes off a cliff. They use those really big spokes so you would have to have the whole rim and everything. :roll:

Thanks for the offer but I already have the disc stuff.

So even a factory build can go bad if the spoke tension gets out of whack. Just replaced with a new wheelset a couple of months ago with Sun-Ringle ADD, what a difference.

Factory builds can be problematic as they have the Jetson' s maid building the wheels.

 

[cashman]

Clancy, are the disc brake rims the ones with the spoke holes offset to one side? I've never seen a disc brake set up before, but I've seen rims in catalogs that had the spoke holes offset and I've noticed that some rims are exclusively for disc brakes and I was wondering? Thanks!!!

 

[user 135]

Clancy, are the disc brake rims the ones with the spoke holes offset to one side? I've never seen a disc brake set up before, but I've seen rims in catalogs that had the spoke holes offset and I've noticed that some rims are exclusively for disc brakes and I was wondering? Thanks!!!

No these are not offset spoke bed rims. Off set spoke beds help to minimize the tension difference between the two side when dishing a wheel. But I think they are mostly used on rear rims and not on any disc rims.

 

[cashman]

If I ever had a wheel that the spokes started poping loose, I usually always replaced ALL of the spokes with new ones. I've had problems with worn or defective spokes that may have been stripped or not have been threaded correctly or wheels that had mismatched brands of spokes and nipples. Trueing a wheel is not like rocket science, but it is akin to playing a musical instrument. You kinda have to develope the pathways from the eyes to the brain and back to the fingers in order to true a wheel. It's just not something that most people can read how to do in a book and be successful the first time out. It just takes a little patience and practice. After a while, you'll start noticing how the wheel reacts to the different ways the spokes are tightened. Another thing is to try to keep all the spokes the same length before trying to tighten or true or dish the wheel. As you install each nipple, give it the same number of rotations on each spoke. I usually go three or four turns on each to get started. This is where I've seen a lot of new guys get started on the wrong foot when trying to true a wheel and they end up frustrated. It's also helps to start by using new rims that are not bent or stretched. Good luck and practice, practice, practice. Thanks!!!

 

[socal_jack]

Factory builds can be problematic as they have the Jetson' s maid building the wheels.

I've owned both hand-built and machine-built, and I don't think it really matters all that much. Once spokes start popping from jumps and other abuse it doesn't matter all that much who or what built it. Another factor is quality of components, although the bike had good quality WTB Dual Duty rims, the spokes(and hubs for that matter) were of undetermined quality, didn't have any manufacturer stamp on the spoke heads or hubs. Replaced allthe spokes with DTs and never broke another, but replaced wheelset after finding a screaming deal.