We now have available a HD Type II Monark Dual Springer fork which has been designed for motorized and HD use. We have listened to our customers, and have redesigned and greatly improved the standard fork. The improvements are 1.Thicker triple chrome springs which provide much better action. 2.All connection points have been reinforced with substantial additional welding. 3.The bottom rockers are now laser cut stainless steel, mounted externally for more wheel clearance.4.The rockers ride on brass bushings for even smoother action. The new Type II is light years ahead from our earlier repros, I believe all will be impressed with it. You can find this fork at http://www.monarkforks.com
Monark Dual Springer Fork
- Thread starter Monark Guy
- Start date
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Monark Guy said:
So you have a new and improved (safer) Monark style fork for sale now? Good! But what about all that left over stock of the original forks? The ones that so many people complained about? Are these the forks you advertise as series 1 forks? I would hope not! Please reassure me that the series 1 forks you advertise are not the ones that break so easily. I would hate to think that you might still be selling old stock of a fork that is commonly believed to be defective. That would not be cool!
If its not safe -don't sell it.
Dorian
I would just like to note that there was never a reply to the enquiry about whether their original version 1 forks (that they still sell) are the ones that people had so many problems with in the past, and if so why are they still selling old stock of a product that had so many complaints about poor durability. If it aint safe -dont sell it!! Reassure us that its not old stock of a problem fork. Why no reply?
Dorian
Dorian
CeeBee said:
Its a question of marketing integrity, while it is admirable to improve upon a design that is recognized to be poor. As a general rule in the market place it is not ok to continue selling potentially dangerous products (as an option) to those on a budget. "Fixing the problem" also means taking substandard products off the market, not just offering a more expensive replacement, and keeping the lousy ones available for those who know nothing about a products poor track record.
We have seen enough fork failures to keep this issue front and center. Keeping product suppliers on notice that people will not accept the continued sale of poor quality goods is not a bad thing.
Dorian
Aside from anecdotal evidence, what is the actual number of people who bought the "Type 1" compared to people who had problems with it?
"Safety" is pretty broad. Who got hurt? How specifically did they get hurt? What parts failed? I think when you look at the data, you ca
n make some clear determinations. Everything else is here say, maybe true, but second hand information still. I'm on another board for motorized bicycling, and there is lots of "evidence" about chain tension wheels coming off and flying into the spokes, etc. Some people have been hurt, some bikes wrecked. But when you look at the data, the actual number occurrences is small relative to the shear number of bikes with tension wheels.
There is a failure rate on anything and everything. The part has been improved based on feedback from consumers. Going forward, if a company...any company wants to sell or continue to sell products considered "unsafe" or "defective" or even poorly engineered and manufactured, that's their problem, and the problem of the buy who forgot the old adage "Caveat emptor"....."Let the buyer beware"..but, if companies deal with this group and misrepresent their products...they won't be in business long. Word spreads, let's make sure the data support the message.
"Safety" is pretty broad. Who got hurt? How specifically did they get hurt? What parts failed? I think when you look at the data, you ca
n make some clear determinations. Everything else is here say, maybe true, but second hand information still. I'm on another board for motorized bicycling, and there is lots of "evidence" about chain tension wheels coming off and flying into the spokes, etc. Some people have been hurt, some bikes wrecked. But when you look at the data, the actual number occurrences is small relative to the shear number of bikes with tension wheels.
There is a failure rate on anything and everything. The part has been improved based on feedback from consumers. Going forward, if a company...any company wants to sell or continue to sell products considered "unsafe" or "defective" or even poorly engineered and manufactured, that's their problem, and the problem of the buy who forgot the old adage "Caveat emptor"....."Let the buyer beware"..but, if companies deal with this group and misrepresent their products...they won't be in business long. Word spreads, let's make sure the data support the message.
The issue comes when "their problem" becomes our problem. Numerous complaints have been made about reproduction Monark style forks for a couple of years now, across many different forums. We have seen a number of photos of broken forks that got that way under normal use conditions, and many complaints from people who did not post photos. There is an issue, and I can't think of any similar product in our bike community that has aroused so much concern as some of these repro forks have. I think its a legitimate concern when people want to know that the product they are buying is up to snuff and trustworthy. When you've seen a number of photo examples of the same failure it makes you wonder.
The new version appears to be much stronger, and is the one that most people (who know about the concerns) would buy. Even at a higher price.
Dorian
The new version appears to be much stronger, and is the one that most people (who know about the concerns) would buy. Even at a higher price.
Dorian
It wasn't that long ago that this was recognized as a real problem, and not just because people were putting them on raked frames or extending them. I want to know if the old forks that were identified as having a problem are still being flogged to unsuspecting buyers? Have the new base model forks been fixed once and for all, or does the old troubled version remain as the "cheap option". You shouldn't have to worry about whether your $120 fork will need major upgrading to make it right. As a general point, I want to know if the bike parts we buy are going to hold up.
This other thread on the subject was still quite active last year: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8703&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
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This other thread on the subject was still quite active last year: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8703&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
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I don't disagree with anything has said so far, I'm just looking for measurable facts. When the maker doesn't speak up and people are trash talking his product, it does make me wonder. So, Mr. Monark Forks.....what do you have to say. How about some facts on the numbers??
I don't think people are talking trash about the new products, but they are talking about clarification on forks that have been around for a while. The new designs are not the problem, like the Abraham linkage fork, good reports all around. Its a question of whether all those old forks that had the problems are still being sold. I would like the distributors/makers to clarify that all the issues with the old forks have been fixed, and that none of old stock of problematic forks are being sold anymore.
Sellers have an obligation to ensure ( and declare) that their products are up to standard, it's no good saying "let the buyer beware" because the onus for quality begins with the seller, the buyer shouldn't have to guess or take chances on such things. If we are constantly wondering whether products are safe then we have nothing. We shouldn't have to fear that everything we buy will fall apart, and if it does break that it was somehow our fault for not buying wisely enough. The repro Schwinn spring forks are sometimes lousy quality, and a 100.000+ have been sold, but they never had any kind of concerns attached to them like these Monark repops have had. Its one thing to be lousy, its another thing to have structural failure. Enough have failed in the same way to make it an ongoing concern. Silence on the part of the maker/seller is not golden in this case. I'm with you on that point Flyer, it makes me wonder too.
Remember when all the big tobacco companies stated to the Congressional Subcommittees that smoking did not not cause cancer? Sometimes a companies self interest impedes its ability to tell the full truth on matters related to their product.
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Sellers have an obligation to ensure ( and declare) that their products are up to standard, it's no good saying "let the buyer beware" because the onus for quality begins with the seller, the buyer shouldn't have to guess or take chances on such things. If we are constantly wondering whether products are safe then we have nothing. We shouldn't have to fear that everything we buy will fall apart, and if it does break that it was somehow our fault for not buying wisely enough. The repro Schwinn spring forks are sometimes lousy quality, and a 100.000+ have been sold, but they never had any kind of concerns attached to them like these Monark repops have had. Its one thing to be lousy, its another thing to have structural failure. Enough have failed in the same way to make it an ongoing concern. Silence on the part of the maker/seller is not golden in this case. I'm with you on that point Flyer, it makes me wonder too.
Remember when all the big tobacco companies stated to the Congressional Subcommittees that smoking did not not cause cancer? Sometimes a companies self interest impedes its ability to tell the full truth on matters related to their product.
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I know a guy who recently bought the 'beefed up' version of the Type 1 forks from Venice MotorBikes. They are pricey to begin with, and no one tells you that it requires an old-school bearing race that's .... near impossible to find. The steer tube is the same size all the way down, so modern bearing races are too loose. Now he has to get someone to weld a bead on the bottom of the steer tube and then use a lathe to smooth it out. That's not all! The dropouts that come with it are too thin and only fit the old-school front rims with a smaller axle, so he had to pay someone else to laser-cut some custom dropouts. That detail is also conveniently left out by all involved.
In the end, he is paying more than the cost of the Type 2 just to make the Type 1 forks safe and usable. To me, this is just shady business practice by both the fork makers/sellers and Venice Motorbikes. We are supposed to be a biking community that looks after each other and helps each other, not take advantage of each other.
Here's a link to his thread on another site. The Monark Fork info starts on page 3. http://electrabikeforums.websitetoolbox.com/post/quotdoshoundsquot-Dyno-Build-5755146?trail=15
In the end, he is paying more than the cost of the Type 2 just to make the Type 1 forks safe and usable. To me, this is just shady business practice by both the fork makers/sellers and Venice Motorbikes. We are supposed to be a biking community that looks after each other and helps each other, not take advantage of each other.
Here's a link to his thread on another site. The Monark Fork info starts on page 3. http://electrabikeforums.websitetoolbox.com/post/quotdoshoundsquot-Dyno-Build-5755146?trail=15
GameBent said:
On their site they sell a matched head set for it with bearing races at a price =X and also a axle kit and information on how to make wider axles fit. I.m.o. I think the fork should come with the bearing races being the fork itself is a odd size but I guess that's what you get for a repop of a old fork. I love the look of the fork but all the buzz I've heard has kept me away from them... I would totally get the modern version from felt but it's 1- 1/8 =X Hope this post will atleast help future buyers with this issue.. I would just steal a old race from a junk fork and flip the rockers to the outside... Add spacers if needed maybe longer rocker bolts if needed.. Cheers guys
this guy is just here to sell forks.. he does not care to reply / respond post is here just to get you
to stop by his website..
to stop by his website..
Henry morgan said:
I think its apparent that his post here was self serving, it was simply advertising. Questions about whether the base 1 forks he sells are the old stock ( problem forks) are obviously too inconvenient for him to address here from a marketing point of view. He posted, we responded, and in turn we get no response to our further inquiries. If a company offers a product on a public forum, they should give the polite courtesy of answering questions that people have about that product. If they have nothing to hide?
In regards to the other problem of "intended use". The type 1's are marketed for general use for hobbyists, even though they do not meet the basic modern specs for use on many new applications. The companies that sell these things should be more up front about the limitations related to mounting and component fit, and whether the forks offered are the "old stock" versions that have so many related safety concerns. I think it is apparent enough from the number of complaints about the early repro's that there is a problem here.
Some of sellers/distributors of these parts are going to want try and gloss over concerns about these forks. If you've made money off a product, you won't want sales to fall off. Sellers of a product tend to be biased in favour of sales, and will hold a certain corporate position to maintain those sales. It's the actual company that imports these things that needs to respond to ongoing concerns about quality and fit. For some of the stores (and sellers) of these old re-pops no amount of customer concern will get them to accept that there might be a problem. I think the unbiased complaints that have come in over the years are credible enough to keep us on guard.
Do the people who promote the early versions of this fork have a monetary stake in keeping them on the market? If so look for bias in how they respond to customer concerns. Sorry for rambling.
On their site they sell a matched head set for it with bearing races at a price =X and also a axle kit and information on how to make wider axles fit. I.m.o. I think the fork should come with the bearing races being the fork itself is a odd size but I guess that's what you get for a repop of a old fork. I love the look of the fork but all the buzz I've heard has kept me away from them... I would totally get the modern version from felt but it's 1- 1/8 =X Hope this post will atleast help future buyers with this issue.. I would just steal a old race from a junk fork and flip the rockers to the outside... Add spacers if needed maybe longer rocker bolts if needed.. Cheers guys[/quote]
I am the guy Gamebent is referring to and I did buy the headset they said I needed to work, guess what, still sloppy loose, the problem is if I could find an old Monark fork I would have used it on my build. Regarding the rockers, the axle openings were too small to fit a modern axle, so you would have to cut them out to use a modern wheelset. So I had to re-engineer a $180 set of forks to work. For my next build I am going to buy the Felt forks from Sportsmanflyer.com He converts them to 1" steer tube, pricey but cheaper than the Monarks in the long run!
I am the guy Gamebent is referring to and I did buy the headset they said I needed to work, guess what, still sloppy loose, the problem is if I could find an old Monark fork I would have used it on my build. Regarding the rockers, the axle openings were too small to fit a modern axle, so you would have to cut them out to use a modern wheelset. So I had to re-engineer a $180 set of forks to work. For my next build I am going to buy the Felt forks from Sportsmanflyer.com He converts them to 1" steer tube, pricey but cheaper than the Monarks in the long run!
Yeah sounds like a headache for sure !! Guess their "options" arnt't problem solvers .. and right on for the info man I'll look into that !
This is Dave from Monark Forks. There are a lot of erroneous facts here, I want to set the record straight.
The Monark T1 and Monark T2 are the EXACT same fork, the only difference is we use a vintage rocker on the T1, and a HD SS rocker on the T2. EVERY fork we ship out is reinforced, has been for years. We offer a full money back warranty on the fork. We haven't had ANY issues with the reinforced forks, we've sold thousands of them. For those who want verification of this, check us out on Ebay, there has not been onenegative Feedback entry detailing anything defective about our fork.
We stand in back of this product, and we can be reached with any questions M-F 9-5 PST at 310-396-1453.
Our website is www.monarkforks.com
The Monark T1 and Monark T2 are the EXACT same fork, the only difference is we use a vintage rocker on the T1, and a HD SS rocker on the T2. EVERY fork we ship out is reinforced, has been for years. We offer a full money back warranty on the fork. We haven't had ANY issues with the reinforced forks, we've sold thousands of them. For those who want verification of this, check us out on Ebay, there has not been onenegative Feedback entry detailing anything defective about our fork.
We stand in back of this product, and we can be reached with any questions M-F 9-5 PST at 310-396-1453.
Our website is www.monarkforks.com
In comedy, timing is everything.
This post wouldn't have been nearly as hilarious if Monark Guy hadn't waited nearly 3 years to respond to the criticism.
This post wouldn't have been nearly as hilarious if Monark Guy hadn't waited nearly 3 years to respond to the criticism.
