Need help - what kind of bike is this?

[ratina]

Some of you may remember this bike I picked up earlier this year. Back then I had no idea what it was, since then I've learned a lot about bikes from this site.

I did steal the crank, sprocket, and front fender for my Hiawatha, but now I'm going to build it up for my girlfriend, just curious as to what it is.


I know its a Cleveland welding frame, but the sprocket looks like a Monarch? Rebadged Seiberling Road King from Akron OH. Grips are Western Flyer. I'm guessing its a Western Flyer with the sprocket changed out? It was originally dark blue.

Also any idea on year? thanks in advance

I did find this paint pattern on the front fender:

I found this on ebay...looks similar

 

[Boardtrack fan]

My best guess is that it is pre WWII or early post WWII CWC sold by a hardware or department store that went by the Seiberling name. The grips are later and were probably just replacements bought at a Western auto store. The bike shop I worked at as a kid was a Western auto before turning to sporting goods and bikes only. I have seen a couple of variations of that sprocket but, I am pretty sure it came with the bike. Here are some photos of a Pilot bike. Same chain ring and the remnants of a CWC sticker. This bike is all original.

 

[ratina]

Cool thanks for the picture and the info.

What about the fork though, mine doesn't look like the typical CWC fork, it looks like a schwinn. but when I was wire wheeling it down it was the same blue as the frame and it had similar "fork darts" to an older schwinn, back when they were longer and looked hand painted.

Cool thing is when I bought the matching rear fender off of ebay for my Hiawatha that chainguard thats on your bike came with it, so I have that already too. I want to find a tank for it as well.

 

[Boardtrack fan]

The fork seems to have the same patina as the rest of the bike. I found a 1939 Roadmaster catalog that shows the same frame, fork, and sprocket combo. Handle bars and seat are different. Handle bars look like Elgin but, they could have also come on the bike.

 

[ratina]

Thanks for the catalog picture. Does anyone know a time frame when they used the curved fender braces? Maybe that will help narrow it down more.

 

[FaceOFFbikes]

Thanks for the catalog picture. Does anyone know a time frame when they used the curved fender braces? Maybe that will help narrow it down more.

We have twins lol

 

[ratina]

Thanks for the catalog picture. Does anyone know a time frame when they used the curved fender braces? Maybe that will help narrow it down more.

We have twins lol

Except yours is a lot nicer. At least I wont feel bad about repainting this one!

 

[schwinnmesa]

I found this on ebay...looks similar

I have got to see more pictures of the Fleetwing. :mrgreen:

 

[rms37]

Hi,

Here are answers to some of your questions...

I just posted to the question about the similar girls bike. Your bike was also made by The Cleveland Welding Company and probably dates between 1946 and 1950. Seiberling was primarily a tire company and offered badged bicycles much like Firestone and Goodyear. Most of the bicycles I have seen with Seiberling badges have been prewar Colsons but most distributors supplied bicycles from more than one manufacturer.

Several of the details that help pin down the production time from the frame are not clear from the photos (good pictures of the rear dropouts, the seat clamp, and the bridges for the rear fender.)

The yellow girl’s bike has curved fender braces that were first introduced by CWC in 1939 on some models. This was also the year that CWC introduced curved chain stays (again on some models). The bike is likely from 1939 but with little change that model was in production from 1937 through 1942

While curved, your fender braces are different and later than the ones on the yellow bike. Many features like the fender braces were changed over time and straight and curved braces, beginning in 1939 were offered simultaneously, usually to separate lesser models from higher spec models.

The same goes for forks, CWC typically offered springer forks, deluxe un-sprung forks and basic forks on different models during a single model year. Both triple plate and full forged forks were used for several years by CWC.

Phil

 

[roadmaster]

great prewar bike!! my first thoughts were a CWC (cleveland welding co, makers of roadmaster frames back in that day), elgin and hawthorn. but cwc sounds closest. whatever it is, i like it.

 

[B607]

The bike is likely from 1939 but with little change that model was in production from 1937 through 1942

Phil

Hey Phil,
When you say, "...through 1942", do you mean up until '42? From everything I've read, the only bike company making bikes "during the war years" was Columbia. This was, of course, due to WW2 and the gov't. only allowing one bike company to stay in business making bikes. Columbia got the call which is why the military bikes were made by them. The year 1941, on the other hand, was a huge year for bicycle production as the war and war production didn't start until the end of '41.
What is your interpretation of the above? Thanks, B607

 

[rms37]

Hey Phil,
When you say, "...through 1942", do you mean up until '42? From everything I've read, the only bike company making bikes "during the war years" was Columbia. This was, of course, due to WW2 and the gov't. only allowing one bike company to stay in business making bikes. Columbia got the call which is why the military bikes were made by them. The year 1941, on the other hand, was a huge year for bicycle production as the war and war production didn't start until the end of '41.
What is your interpretation of the above? Thanks, B607

Thanks for noting that, It would have been better to say “into 1942.” From what I have read Cleveland Welding discontinued bicycle production in February of 1942. I don’t believe that a 1942 Roadmaster catalog was printed but typically any 1942 model changes would already be in production during the fall of 1941.

Concerning the larger picture, I don’t believe that the government mandate to replace bicycle production with government and munitions work was quite as broad and far reaching as it is usually thought to be. In addition to Westfield (Columbia), Huffman also was allowed to continue bicycle production for military and rationed civilian use. Documents also show that Schwinn produced bicycles (predominantly Cycle Trucks) past 1942.

Patents filed in 1943 show that while CWC was not producing bikes for sale, they at least had a skeleton crew working on future designs.

Phil

 

[ratina]

Hi,

Here are answers to some of your questions...

I just posted to the question about the similar girls bike. Your bike was also made by The Cleveland Welding Company and probably dates between 1946 and 1950. Seiberling was primarily a tire company and offered badged bicycles much like Firestone and Goodyear. Most of the bicycles I have seen with Seiberling badges have been prewar Colsons but most distributors supplied bicycles from more than one manufacturer.

Several of the details that help pin down the production time from the frame are not clear from the photos (good pictures of the rear dropouts, the seat clamp, and the bridges for the rear fender.)

The yellow girl’s bike has curved fender braces that were first introduced by CWC in 1939 on some models. This was also the year that CWC introduced curved chain stays (again on some models). The bike is likely from 1939 but with little change that model was in production from 1937 through 1942

While curved, your fender braces are different and later than the ones on the yellow bike. Many features like the fender braces were changed over time and straight and curved braces, beginning in 1939 were offered simultaneously, usually to separate lesser models from higher spec models.

The same goes for forks, CWC typically offered springer forks, deluxe un-sprung forks and basic forks on different models during a single model year. Both triple plate and full forged forks were used for several years by CWC.

Phil

Thanks for all the help...where do you get all your information???