Paint and decal question

[zombie7986]

Im going to be repainting an old schwinn for my wife and she wants the original looking logos back on. I know the new ones i get will probably be vinyl. Im going to be rattle caning and clear coating. My question is if i should have the sticker under or over the clear? I though over but wanted to make sure. Also does anyone know of a good place for schwinn stickers other than ebay?

 

[expjawa]

You can do it either way. I've been putting the decals under the clearcoat so that they're better protected. It also puts a glossier finish on the vinyl than it would ordinarily have.

 

[raggedjim]

You can do it either way. I've been putting the decals under the clearcoat so that they're better protected. It also puts a glossier finish on the vinyl than it would ordinarily have.

I agree, if you want them to last clear over them. But I won't kid you, rattle can clear is TOUGH! Spray it too thick and it will lift your color coat, spray it too thin and it doesn't shine.

Good luck, Rg

 

[expjawa]

Well, hang on a second - I agree that laying clearcoat can be tough, but I will argue that laying subsequent coats of any paint can be tough, regardless of color. Here's what I've learned over the course of painting several bikes and discussing it with a guy I know that owns a local body shop.

Spray it too thick and it will lift your color coat

Mixing laquers and enamels will lift previous coats of paint. Putting laquer over enamel will cause the enamel to lift and wrinkle. You can, however, put enamel over laquer without issue. But if you just stick with enamel paints, then the issue resolves itself. Sometimes that's easier said then done.

Spraying one type of paint too heavy can also lift previous layers as well. But what lifts the paint is not simply you applied too much, it lifts because too much reducer builds up under the surface, and it attacks the previous layer. This can happen when you apply too many layers at one time without enough cure time in between. I've seen a difference between parts that were clear coated all at the same time, but had been painted on different days beforehand. The parts that had an extra day to cure were fine. But the other parts that'd been painted a day later (thus having one day less to cure) had the paint lift when I cleared them. Curing time for previous layers definately is important. Now, I wait a full week between putting down the color coat and then applying the clearcoat. I haven't had paint lift issues since I've done that.

spray it too thin and it doesn't shine

I agree here, as well. But again, there's more to the story. Sprayed too thin leads to a rougher surface texture, as the paint dries faster while hitting the surface to be painted. However, you actually want this for the first couple coats, just put down a light tack coat, and that surface helps the subsequent coats to stick. When you apply your last coat, then go for a heavier, wetter coat (but not wet enough to run). But, if some areas go down too thin, you can either put another wet coat over them, or they can be wet sanded (assuming you've built up enough coats). A rougher area from a thin coat can still be made quite smooth and glossy, but admittedly, it takes more work. Sand with 1200 grit, rub out with polishing compound, repeat as required.

The trouble with doing it out of a rattle can is regulating the spray nozzle. Aerosal cans are either all or naught. There are some, however, that are a lot more controllable than others. I've had good luck, personally, with the nozzles on Duplicolor cans. They do allow for a little bit of feathering. Also, the nozzles on the Spraymax cans are quite controllable (relatively speaking). They also can be turned 90 degrees to create either a wide, short pattern, or a narrow, tall pattern. That's helpful for painting bike frames, where the tubes go up and down and side to side. For angled tubes, you pick one and hold the can angled, but it still puts alot more paint on the part than a conical spray pattern does. I only use the Spraymax clearcoat now, despite the price and extra care required in handling. Also, the Spraymax is urethane paint, rather than enamel or laquer, so the finish is much more automotive-like. It's tougher and holds up better.

One other note regarding clear coating - preparation is important too. Just because you're painting from a spray can doesn't mean that the prep needed for a good paint job doesn't apply still. Paint needs a fairly rough surface to get a grip on to it. If you just clear coat over the existing paint, it likely won't adhere well. sanding the paint with 600 grit will rough it up enough to allow the clear to bite. It will noticeably dull the finish of the color coat, but a good clearcoat will fill in the sand scratches and theoretically come out smooth, restoring the gloss. Wet sanding is important, IMHO, because it keeps the paper from clogging with the colored paint and keeps that from being embedded in the paint being sanded, especially if more than one color is used. That can otherwise lead to distorting the second color. Failure to properly prep the paint to be cleared can result in the clearcoat chipping and pealing easily, although, again, the urethane based clear coat is much less likely to do that as well.

 

[sleepy]

Also does anyone know of a good place for schwinn stickers other than ebay?

Take a look at memorylane-classics.com

 

[Vonpotter]

One thing to consider also, If you plan to clear over your vinyl, start by doing your first 2 or 3 coats in a light dust coat with about a 10 minute flash time in between. This will prevent the paint from getting under the adhesives and lifting your vinyl. Best rule of thumb when painting anything: Start light and get a little heavier each coat. Always let it flash for at least 5 min, but I reccommend 10. Also. Make sure you prep it right. You can lay down the best paintjob in the world, but if you prepped it like a blind amputee, its only gonna last for about 2 weeks before you have trouble. I spray for a living. You have any paint questions, feel free to PM me 8)

One more thing: You will be a little more limited on color options, but I highly recommend the Farm and Implement Enamels if your going spray can. They just hold up better

VP

 

[raggedjim]

Well, hang on a second - I agree that laying clearcoat can be tough, but I will argue that laying subsequent coats of any paint can be tough, regardless of color. Here's what I've learned over the course of painting several bikes and discussing it with a guy I know that owns a local body shop.

Spray it too thick and it will lift your color coat

Mixing laquers and enamels will lift previous coats of paint. Putting laquer over enamel will cause the enamel to lift and wrinkle. You can, however, put enamel over laquer without issue. But if you just stick with enamel paints, then the issue resolves itself. Sometimes that's easier said then done.

Spraying one type of paint too heavy can also lift previous layers as well. But what lifts the paint is not simply you applied too much, it lifts because too much reducer builds up under the surface, and it attacks the previous layer. This can happen when you apply too many layers at one time without enough cure time in between. I've seen a difference between parts that were clear coated all at the same time, but had been painted on different days beforehand. The parts that had an extra day to cure were fine. But the other parts that'd been painted a day later (thus having one day less to cure) had the paint lift when I cleared them. Curing time for previous layers definately is important. Now, I wait a full week between putting down the color coat and then applying the clearcoat. I haven't had paint lift issues since I've done that.

spray it too thin and it doesn't shine

I agree here, as well. But again, there's more to the story. Sprayed too thin leads to a rougher surface texture, as the paint dries faster while hitting the surface to be painted. However, you actually want this for the first couple coats, just put down a light tack coat, and that surface helps the subsequent coats to stick. When you apply your last coat, then go for a heavier, wetter coat (but not wet enough to run). But, if some areas go down too thin, you can either put another wet coat over them, or they can be wet sanded (assuming you've built up enough coats). A rougher area from a thin coat can still be made quite smooth and glossy, but admittedly, it takes more work. Sand with 1200 grit, rub out with polishing compound, repeat as required.

The trouble with doing it out of a rattle can is regulating the spray nozzle. Aerosal cans are either all or naught. There are some, however, that are a lot more controllable than others. I've had good luck, personally, with the nozzles on Duplicolor cans. They do allow for a little bit of feathering. Also, the nozzles on the Spraymax cans are quite controllable (relatively speaking). They also can be turned 90 degrees to create either a wide, short pattern, or a narrow, tall pattern. That's helpful for painting bike frames, where the tubes go up and down and side to side. For angled tubes, you pick one and hold the can angled, but it still puts alot more paint on the part than a conical spray pattern does. I only use the Spraymax clearcoat now, despite the price and extra care required in handling. Also, the Spraymax is urethane paint, rather than enamel or laquer, so the finish is much more automotive-like. It's tougher and holds up better.

One other note regarding clear coating - preparation is important too. Just because you're painting from a spray can doesn't mean that the prep needed for a good paint job doesn't apply still. Paint needs a fairly rough surface to get a grip on to it. If you just clear coat over the existing paint, it likely won't adhere well. sanding the paint with 600 grit will rough it up enough to allow the clear to bite. It will noticeably dull the finish of the color coat, but a good clearcoat will fill in the sand scratches and theoretically come out smooth, restoring the gloss. Wet sanding is important, IMHO, because it keeps the paper from clogging with the colored paint and keeps that from being embedded in the paint being sanded, especially if more than one color is used. That can otherwise lead to distorting the second color. Failure to properly prep the paint to be cleared can result in the clearcoat chipping and pealing easily, although, again, the urethane based clear coat is much less likely to do that as well.

Great write up! I also do lots of wet/color sanding. Rg