Questions about 1950 vintage full size Schwinn cantilever frame springer bike.

[horsefarmer]

Inherited this bike from my brother - so i really don't know the particulars. Of course it would be cool if it was a phantom! According to the serial # the frame was mfg. in 1950.

It has a massive 52t chainring, and a springer fork with a lock but no key. Not original paint, not original wheels, fenders are Wald replacements and the chainguard is newer.

Tires do hold air, and I found a seat and post and got it going today between the rain drops. #1 - with a 52t chainring and a 19t coaster gear inches is a whopping 73 gear inches. Thinking of adding a Nexus 3 coaster, cause this bike as it is is a workout to pedal. I'm thinking of switching to a 49t chainring and a 21t cog on the 3 speed hub...

I'd like to here from folks who have built similar bikes.

 

[horsefarmer]

Turned out my brother had a stash of Shimano/Bendix cogs including several 23t. These should get the gear inches of this heavy bike into a usable range for me.

 

[hamqqea]

I suggest moving to a 24T cog if you're intent on using that 49t drive. 42 gear inches is still on the high side for climbing with such a bike. You won't use 3rd gear until you're pointing down hill. Around 55 gear inches is good for cruising on level ground with tire pressures nearing 40 PSI. Gearing ultimately depends on where you're riding, how strong you are and your position.

The O.L.D spacing of the Nexus is 120mm with gear steps of 36%
The older 3SC is a 110mm hub with 33% steps. The 3% percent difference would be negligible for your application.

 

[horsefarmer]

Gearing ultimately depends on where you're riding, how strong you are and your position.

Well said! Since a previous owner replaced the rear wheel with a Bendix 70, I have no idea what the original rear cog was. Chain is kinda loose and wheel is just about falling out of the drop outs, so going to 23t from the 19t on it now will fix that as well. I added info from my Cannondale, totally different bike, far lighter, 700c wheels but just because the range of speeds shown (for me) is perfect - I don't need lower for the hills round here, and I chicken out and coast before I'd ever spin out in high. As it sits now, with 73 gear inches, It is a work out to ride on the flat. Our drive is pea gravel and I start out barely moving. Get out to the blacktop road and its so much easier, but only about 1/2 block and I'm done. Of course, who knows the rolling resistance of prob 40 year old nylon made in USA tires look like they came off a model t.

 

[Wildcat]

1950 cantilever frame with a springer. It probably was a Phantom unless one of the other cantilever models had a springer added at the Schwinn shop. It looks like it was prepped well before the red repaint, so the original paint scheme may not be under there. It does look like some old red peeking through on the head tube, but it's hard to tell. It's got the right chain wheel too.

I can't leave anything alone so I would use some paint remover or oven cleaner and try to take off some red paint near where the Phantom paint trim features would show on the frame. The color can also be seen if you remove the forks and see what the color the yoke has on it. Then check the inside of the head tube on the frame. The same goes for inside the bottom bracket, unless they sandblasted the frame first.
Then I would have to get some red spray paint and touch up where I had removed the paint, unless the original looked good, then I would spend a hundred hours trying to bring it back.

For gearing, have you considered the SA 2 speed kickback?

 

[horsefarmer]

The crank seems bent on the chainring side and I can't seem to adjust the bottom bracket bearings, so I'm pulling the original crank and chainring.

I'm going to replace with a 32t chainring this will give a gear inches of 45. I'm also going to take a peek inside the bottom bracket for original paint color.

 

[horsefarmer]

With 32t installed. Still not rolling to good. Going to look at the hubs, feels like the coaster is sticking or maybe just needs grease. Also bad news on the original paint, inside the bottom bracket was clean and painted the same color as the rest of the bike. It is a nice paint job. just not original.

 

[Wildcat]

Wish I had a 1950 Schwinn.
The rear hub might be the problem. With that gearing it should have been effortless to get moving. I have had those hubs that looked like everything was fine but didn't ride well. Then I would disassemble them, clean all the parts, grease and lube everything and put it back together. The it would operate like new. It must have been the old grease that binded them.

 

[horsefarmer]

Wish I had a 1950 Schwinn.
The rear hub might be the problem. With that gearing it should have been effortless to get moving. I have had those hubs that looked like everything was fine but didn't ride well. Then I would disassemble them, clean all the parts, grease and lube everything and put it back together. The it would operate like new. It must have been the old grease that binded them.

Thanks Wildcat! That's what i'm thinking. This has been someone's unfinished project, then my brother must of bought it. Had some odd signs, such as the Bendix 70 rear hub/replacement, chain which seems new, no sign of a seat post clamp on the paint, and that nice paint job prob had frame sandblasted and professionally painted. So if a "70" hub was from the 1970's and ditto the made in USA nylon tires which have nice tread but also some hefty weather cracks, then maybe the grease is 50 years old in there! Another odd sign about the hub is it's totally clean outside, no oil, no grease. It's actually got light rust on the cadmium plate.
And those worn pedals came right off with a 15mm wrench!

Also was not able to set bearings in bottom bracket correctly. Turned out the washer that goes between the adjustable cone and the lock nut had the tab that keeps it from turning worn away!

Anyway the brake seems to be sticking on now creating drag. I think this has been an unfinished and not ridden for a long time.

 

[horsefarmer]

Update: Bendix coaster hub would barely turn. Inside the grease had turned into Tootsie Roll/contact cement.
I had to pry the brake shoes out with a screw driver! Finally got all the gunk out of it - will post results after re-lube and test drive.

 

[Wildcat]

I can never find one of those lock washers for the cranks. They are all gone or the tab is gone.
As for gunked up parts I've used a mineral bath and a brush to get all the old stuff loosened up and cleaned off. Then the bearings get grease and the rest of the hub internals get lighter lube. Then I can adjust the bearing cones to where there is barely any play but it rolls almost as long as the front wheel does.
You'll probably go back to a bigger sprocket after riding it.

 

[Dr. Tankenstein]

@Wildcat and @horsefarmer
I’ve got a box of crankset parts in my stash, with a bunch of those notched washers.

PM me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[horsefarmer]

Hub was a mess took solvent and scotchbrite pad to remove the sticky grease residue. Ball bearings are still a little sluggish and I hope some miles will free them up.

Coaster brake back together, seems much better, have to do front wheel bearings and maybe put more air in the ancient tires (35 psi max) try to get it rolling better.

Paint by the locking fork is peeled. Looks like the bike paint was stripped or sandblasted. No original paint tho.

 

[horsefarmer]

When the weather gets a little nicer, I'm gonna take it on our small loop route, around 5 mi, and see how it does. The tires are a matched set of General Saf-T-Cleat vintage made in USA. They are heavy and I will swap out for something better. Should look inside those wheels anyway - sometimes rims get wet inside.

 

[horsefarmer]

Tore into front hub, more dirt and hardened grease.

Different setup on the front springer fork than I have seen before.

This tire looks bad!

 

[Wildcat]

Tore into front hub, more dirt and hardened grease.
View attachment 117582
Different setup on the front springer fork than I have seen before.

View attachment 117583
This tire looks bad!
View attachment 117584

They will look good hanging up on the garage wall. Your rolling resistance will get better with a good set of 26 x 2.125 tires. A smooth tread pattern with 50 or higher psi will roll the best. My favorite is the brick pattern, it looks classic and rolls well. I found one place with good prices, but you have to order fifty bucks worth for free shipping, only in the US mainland though.

Or a pair on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pair-of-...Lv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598

https://www.cambriabike.com/collections/tires/products/cst-tires-c645-cruiser-tires

 

[horsefarmer]

5 mi test ride today went great, found a newer used tire so didn't have to push that cracked tire.

It's a little slow on the flat but good on moderate hills. Would be perfect for a slow cruise kind of ride. Will start a build thread soon.