Annual Observation about the Bike Hobby

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Last year I made a similar observation just after the RRBBO 3 about the general slowdown in the board, the postings and general bike transactions. Well, there has a been a slow down in postings, but there has been a steady flow of new members and projects taking place. This is good news for the hobby! However, I am noticing that high end bikes are getting even pricier and more scarce, middle of the road collectible bikes are now going for unprecedented $$$ and previously undesirable bikes are becoming collectible and are often highly fought over on ebay often escalating the bids to astronomical prices. Even previously unsold bikes at the high end of the rarity scale are now being relisted at unheard of prices. Good quality parts to build bikes are not as plentiful as before. Are there just not that many out there anymore? The latest Krate bikes are not selling in the $1000 to $2000 prices, but when parted out are being gobbled up. Very few balloon bikes are being parted out and when they are they go for big $$$. Middleweight bikes in very good to mint condition with all the extras are finding the close to 4 figure bids.

Have we come to a crossroads in the collectability vs. ridability when choosing to buy/build a vintage bike, whether it be a resto, resto-mod, rat, klunker, commuter, fixie or racer? In the 5 years I have been building/collecting/riding vintage bikes I have struggled to find good parts this year like no other and I have attended more events this year than in any year in the past.

I welcome your thoughts and constructive criticism, but not your post bashing. What do you think?

Thanks, Joe
 
I generally see most of that. But I also think people are out looking further than CL or ebay. A collector/ebayer here in town bought a 500 some bike in PA somewhere. Loaded them all up and shipped them back to Idaho. Many guys here have had a long distance relative buy them a bike too.

Yeshoney,you have to admit you find way cool parts/bikes that are a couple steps up from the average collector/builder. There are still lots of unloved Schwinns out there but few Elgins, and other prewar bikes.
 
One thing I've noticed is that average condition bikes just aren't selling. I guess buyers either want a rare, mint original for big $$ or a low buck beater. I've seen a ton of "nice rider condition" bikes not meet the reserve or even get any bids on the bay. Maybe that's why so many bikes are being parted out. I'll bet all hobbies are experiencing this in our poor economy.
 
I bet the scrap metal craze of last year took plenty of parts out of the stream. The repercussions are only now being felt. Imagine how many bikes were scrapped.
 
I personally saw a lot of bikes go thru the scrap yard last year, But I think the good clean desirable parts that Joe is talking about are still out there, but people know the economy is bad and in times like these they just put them away and wait till the economy is better to pull them out and sell them, I have seen it in other hobbies and it is like dejavu all over again. When things get better, the high quality stuff will start reappearing again. That is what I think anyways!!
 
KZ1000 said:
When things get better, the high quality stuff will start reappearing again.
I agree with KZ. I have tried to auction some stuff on Ebay recently and have not been able to get what I feel stuff is worth ( or even close to what the same stuff was selling for a year ago).
My problem is the opposite, I see stuff selling for pretty cheap prices and I have been buying instead of selling :oops:
 
One of the unfortunate trends is dumps and transfer stations won't let you pick through the metal bins for bikes or anything for that matter, I used to go to 4 dumps a week and get lots of bikes, now there's only one in my town that you can pay a small fee for stuff.
Once in a while I still get lucky...like this past week end. 8)

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hit it right on the head with this one....
all comes down to supply and demand(wow.....i guess economics wasnt a complete waste :p )
there was a time when i could find prewar stuff really cheap but then all the boardtrackers became cool and the seats i used to buy at $20-$30 jumped way up in price(think like $100 minimum to ive seen some go for about $300 :shock: )
same with frames/forks/chains and everything else....
i started buying girls forks to cut down since the prewar truss ones were getting outrageous also and after people started realizing they could be cut down and rethreaded or spliced they jumped in price again.....
i guess its a good thing ive got everything i need to finish the 3 projects ive had waiting in the wings for awhile now :wink:
 
I used to buy alot of cool bikes in thrift stores (excellent quality, but outdated road bikes were common, as well as the occasional vintage cruiser) , but rarely find them anymore. I have become more creative in the way I find bikes and getting the word out to others that I want old bikes. I think there are still alot of bikes out there, but I'm sure the supply of prewar bikes must be dwindling, as they have been sought after the longest (kinda like finding a steel '32 Ford coupe body nowadays :shock: ) So, as others say, it's happening in other hobbies too, like rat rods, because they're popular now, so many people are looking for material to use which comes back to "supply and demand" again. For example, that old rusty off-brand set of headlights that were practically free in the past are $100 or more now.

It's still a relatively cheap hobby and the higher prices drive creativity. I'm amazed at what people are doing with more modern frames or complete custom frames. If you can't find it, BUILD IT! :lol:
 
bighit said:
my father in law used to get a call from the guy at the dump at least once a day. they would pull bikes, mowers, weed wackers, blowers and such aside for him. he would fix stuff for the guys and in return he could get stuff for himself. one day the mayer saw a guy taking scrap metal out and driving it to the recycler and pocketing the cash. as a result nothing leaves the dump once it comes in. thats cash for the town and the town dosent care about an old bike.

You are quite correct. The other factor is OSHA according to many Transfer Stations, seems they'd have morons hurting themselves
inside the metal bin. One guy got hurt climbing in and ruined it for all the rest. I had a good run of about 3-4 years before everyone else got into the action.... :roll: 8)
 
Looks like somebody parted a Roadmaster Reproduction. They usually go for $700. Ratrod saw a perfect one a guy in Dallas wanted $300 for. The like new forks would have probably been worth 1/2 of what he wanted for the whole bike. When the economy is crashing a really good deal on bike parts is easy to find. If the unemployment rate is 10% that means that 90% of America is still working. Drive through expensive neighborhoods and they are still building half million dollar houses. Those people have hobbies too. :shock:
 
I purchased my first antique bike nearly 15 years ago but my afflication has only just manifested itself in the last year. I have not been to too many swaps and have only found a few collectors outside the forum. As a result, I don't have much experince to rely on. However; i think that the economic downturn has not only caused people to hoard their stuff till thing improve......but also, some folks may try and get ALL the money for something. Craigslisters are notorious. $ 3000.00 for re-pop's, $800 for rusted jolopies, some of the e-bay "buy it now" pricing for antique bikes is just shocking to me, but to someone else it must be the deal of the centuru because the stuff is selling (Hutch). I think i have found some treasures at a fair cost and sometimes free but I'm sure i'm not the only one who has suffered buyers remorse either :? .

The dumps is still "open for picking" up here, I only had to pay $ 2.00 a bike at the junkyard. I've had a pretty good haul of freebies and done some excellent swapping and regardless of the countless crazy prices on Craigslist I did have a good CL transaction recently (bit sketchy at first since the guy had a gun, but that's another story).

I think swapping is where it is at. Unfortunately shipping is often the killer.

I think this forum is a lot of fun. Back when i was working at the bike shop it was all about how light, how expensive, how new. Even where i work today it is all about perfection. It's both liberating and fun to work on a bike project where there are no set parameters. And the posativity offered by the forum is icing on the cake.
 
I am going to go out on a limb here and say everybody is a little right.

I think without a doubt, that vintage bikes are drying up. There are only so many barns with old bikes waiting to be discovered. Yup, there are still some, but not as many as there once was. The ones that get pulled out and are original and/or clean, are going to fetch the big money. The other problem is, EVERYBODY knows about eBay. Sellers and buyers.

I agree finding nice parts seems way harder than it was ever last year. And I too think that "insider trading" is where to find nice parts for reasonable money. This forum is a good place to find friends to buy from and sell to. I have made numerous deals with members here. I know I have bought and sold below market value because it seems like the right thing to do for a friend that is trying to finish a bike.

On the other hand, this summer alone, I regret not buying several bikes I had the chance to. Were any of them steals? Nope, but all good deals. I have a problem where I dwell on, and overthink things. While I sit all undecided, I lose the deals.

Dan
 
i can tell you from a shop perspective that the amount of decent used bikes being brought in for sale has droped like a stone. and men's cruisers being brought in to sell have droped a lot as well. now there has been a shift to the 70's road stuff being popular mostly with the single speed crowd but also with people restoring vintage road bikes. this even includes varsities that are going for more than i ever thought they would. i cant keep bikes this in stock at all. i myself have had a hard time finding parts mostly good frames to use for kustoms. but thats cool i can wait and i think the forum is as strong as ever seeing more new faces all the time
 
As a guy who's fairly new to all this craziness I dont have the past experience to draw from. I joined this forum a year ago and have been lurking since then but not until recently did I start actually working on my own projects. Im having a super hard time finding any single speed cruisers older than the 90s but Ive managed to gather 9 road bikes for well under $100 in the past month. Im almost tempted to do single speed or fixie conversions on all of them to make a profit. Philadelphia seems to be fixie crazy. Really wish I could find more older cruisers that people arent asking over $300 for in completely rusted condition...
 
Clearly there are common themes through this hobby and many of us find ourselves on different paths or at different places along the same path as we build projects. There are some general statements we probably all can make, and while Joe seems to be right on track with a lot of points, I think there are also some forces at work that are opposite what he states.

1) The high end, original-paint, rare-bike collector market is hot. Always was and probably always will be, for these best-of-the -best, documented, pristine examples of whatever make and model. Top quality road bikes, elusive vintage Schwinns still in boxes, unrestored Phantoms, whatever your cup of tea, there's a perfect, highly valued original out there. But maybe there's some softening here too- the economic situation is really bad all over, and a lot of the people that collected many of these bikes have cut back or decided to liquidate. They may not be for sale where you live but there are a lot of bikes out there for sale, as well as all kinds of other toys (boats, motorcycles, hot rods, RV's, what-have-you). I'd say we've seen the peak of any of these markets, and prices are down across the board, 20-50% even for the best stuff. These are good investments, solid collector value, and if not ridden/used/assembled, will retain their value forever.


2) The bikes and parts just below this, the "nice rider" bikes, the good restorations, the special but undocumented bikes, the repros- these are suffering price drops roughly equal to how bad things are where you live. Coupled with never-before-seen shipping prices, especially for whole bikes, otherwise good, valuable bikes and rideable classics are down in price quite a lot. A great many have been put on the market to raise cash for folks who lost jobs, some are liquidated at fire-sale prices, all in all the market is down and this is driving some collectors to part some great bikes to maximize the dollars they return. It is however a great time to buy if you have the space, the time, and the money.

3) The riders, the beat up bikes, and anything without a pedigree (i.e. a Sears bike, vs a Schwinn for example) are either never selling or are being let go for a loss or below cost. The price of putting one of these back on the road, even if they're near-free, is about equal to the "market" value (call it the "craigslist price".) What will it sell for in a few typical days on your local craigslist? I think a lot of bikes from 40's to 90's are out there for sale, languishing because no one is buying them, period. If I gave you a typical 27" 10-spd or a rusty 26" 3-spd, could you fix it and make even a dollar on it? A lot of times right now that answer is no. It's no if the bike needs too much, for sure, unless you're near a city with a strong market (NYC, Philly, Chicago?) You might put 8 hours or more into a restoration that you can only get $50 for. Unless you just love doing it or have 50 bikes around ready to sell, it might not make sense to do it.

4) Ebay has changed its fee structure and PAypal requirements in ways that drove a lot of sellers out. This combined with high shipping has resulted in more first-time sellers and fewer knowledgeable ones- many got fed up and decided to take their chances with the spam on Craigslist. I also think that the whole "down market" has made a few people decide to just hold rather than sell anything at a loss. Also, hate to say it but the Ebay selling practice of bulk selling of repro stuff, or new junk stuff with keywords like "fits Schwinn" or "not Schwinn" in the titles, makes it frustrating to find parts needed for any project. A lot of times, if I do find an item, the shipping price is enough to kill the deal in my eyes. I know I have to bite the bullet one way or another if I need something, but in many cases I'll hold off. I imagine I'm not alone and that has probably driven a lot of good guys out of the market, to just wait out this storm we all seem caught up in.

I wish everyone in this hobby or business well with whatever they're doing to survive. We may not ever see $3000 Lemon Peelers again, or $5000 Whizzers, but in some sense they never left. The barn finds, the collector sell-offs will probably continue, but it will certainly pay to be in touch with your local scrap guys to make sure that some of the old ones stay out of that metal bin. Unfortunately the towns have their rules about what happens once stuff is dropped off. It never hurts to ask though or even offer finders fees to the guys at the transfer stations- leave a card or a note if that's how you want to go about collecting and saving bikes. If it never goes IN the bin, well, you don't have to pull it OUT now do ya? Call up the guys who advertise locally for scrap- they're usually very happy to sell bikes to you for $5 vs. the 50c they probably get for the metal weight. And use the tools at your disposal if you wish to get free bikes- you will never get any if you don't ask. Advertise on Freecycle in your area, advertise on Craigslist, use the Trader type papers to your advantage.

Last, and this might be off the original topic but I think is related: work to improve cycling in your area. If you are lucky enough to have a local bicycling advisory committee in your town, check it out. Get info from your state DOT about bike lanes, state routes, bike trails, paths, rails-to-trails plans, off-road trails and areas, and find out if your city has any such plans. (Each state has a person designated somewhere who is in charge of this, or they may not receive all of their federal transportation funding). Work to make public transportation include provisions for bikes (racks on buses, allowing bicycles on commuter trains, adding racks at stations, etc). There is money being given to towns, and again you will not get what you do not ask for. Less than 1 year ago, we formed a new cycling group here and already we have people at work on many of these projects. If you have extra time, some work like this for the common good can come out of it.

I wish everyone well, keep ratting and riding!

--Rob Bareiss (NLCTVWguy)
 
I have been in this hobby almost 2 years now and have accumilated alot of bikes, some I question why I brought home (not as much as my wife) I still feel there is alot of bikes to be found, I haven't paid a bunch for any of mine. I think its all about the hunt and word of mouth, for instance how many of you have trolled retirement trailer parks looking down driveways for that dusty three wheeler....they are out there you just have to think outside the box. And just like women , when you aren't looking one usually comes into your life. I sell a bike every so often on craigs list but most of the time I have to deliver, but thats of if its on my delivery route. The bottom line is having fun, thats why I am here.
 
my thoughts... the stuff is out there! Just not in the usual places we used to find it. You would be suprised where KZ1000 and I have found our latest finds. KZ and I live within 5 miles of one another and have yet to run into the same resources for bicycles. You just have to ask the right questions to people who you least expect would have this stuff. KZ1000 can vouch for that! Most of you have seen my collection of vintage ballooners and now new found love the muscle bike (http://www.vintageballoonerbikes.com) and 90% of them I have got for free and the ones that I paid for were very inexpensive! And trust me when I tell you, I have been offered a PRETTY penny for some of them for which I kindly say thank you for the offer. My philosophy with bikes is that its NOT ALWAYS about the most sought after, most minty or the most expensive... its about what YOU like. I would agree with one of the posts... a lot of it is that personal networks that are being established therefore a majority of the bicycles/parts are even making it to market. My $.02 worth 8)
 
Well, it's been a scarce year around here. I'd love to get just one guy's 26" frame. Chick frames galore, 24" bikes, diamond frames, and mountain bikes, oh, the mountain bikes............

So I'm takin' a break on the cruisers for a while, I've got a more serious recumbent to build. I'm using 2 mountain bikes and a '80's Giant 12 speed as donors. Choppin' up the 12 spd should have the fixie crowd wettin' there Underroos!

But, hey!, I've been offered a '50's folder for $45. It just doesn't get any better! Still, if the right bike comes along I'll accept it. Like that elusive Krate that been hangin' in some one's garage for 35 years.

I've been working on the RRBO3 bike tryin' to get it rideable for some distance cycling, and it's getting close. At least the BB isn't gonna' burn up now! I keep saying to myself I'm not going to build any more bikes and just ride or repair the stuff I got, it just never seems to work out that way. :|
 
ive only been to 1 bike show/swap. wasnt much more there that i couldnt get on the net cheaper. still pulling out the same nothing special cruiser bike #'s ive been finding the past couple of years but i have met more local guys into fixin up old bikes so my face to face network has grown a bit, but i dont know if its because more are in the hobby ... or if it was just a matter of time before i ran into them. all in all the seem to just be fixing up a bike or two.
 
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