Profile crank/sprocket install problems help ( on old Schwinn DX )

[spleeft]

I'm attempting to install this Profile RHD RACE CRANKSET and Bolt on Profile sprocket. I spoke to a rep at Profile and I'm pretty sure I purchased the correct parts and length spindle for my DX frame. I used the AMERICAN “HOP UP” BOTTOM BRACKET(19MM & 22MM) from Profile.
1- Do I have the spacer installed correctly on the sprocket , Hat section outwards ?

2- I have the GDH CrMo 5.625" axle spaced evenly between the crank arms. Are the Axle Bolts what determine preload because if I tighten them at all the cranks don't spin as freely? I can get them perfect but I'm afraid the axle bolts will loosen while riding.
3. There is a space between the crank arm and sprocket where the sprocket bolt tightens. IT seems there needs to be a washer in there, otherwise the sprocket "warps" if the sprocket bolt is tightened too much.

Thanks for any help !

 

[spleeft]

2- I have the GDH CrMo 5.625" axle spaced evenly between the crank arms. Are the Axle Bolts what determine preload because if I tighten them at all the cranks don't spin as freely? I can get them perfect but I'm afraid the axle bolts will loosen while riding.

Found the problem with this one, I cut the inner axle spacer just a little too much ( it was ~6mm too wide to allow the cups to press in completey ). It was not making contact with the bearings ( Inside the hub ) so tightening the axle bolts was just tweaking the bearings inward with out having contact with that spacer, ( guy at Profile helped me with this ) . I filed it down a little more and added a crank spacer and it came out just right. The axle nuts tighten completeley and the axle spins freely.
I'm waiting on a Profile tech to get back with me on the other issues.

 

[spleeft]

Update / STill need help-
Questions 1 and 2 are partially answered for me but after repeated contact with Profile techs I'm still having issues so maybe someone here can chime in. (Disclaimer, I'm still waiting on answeres from Profile so Im not trying to bash or talk negative about them )
As for Q1 in my original post the "19mm hat spacer / adapter" for the Profile Blackjack sprocket is not installed correctly in the the pics above. It's just the only way its seems to work ha ha ! The tech set me straight and the adapter is to be installed between the BB and sprocket, not the sprocket and crank. Problem is the crank arm does not sit flush against the crank arm because the adapter does not sit flush and create a solid flat surface for the crank arm / sprocket interface. After the tech looked at the pics I sent he told me that the wrong 19mm adapter had been sent with teh sprocket and he would send out the correct one. I received that one and although it is closer to making that crank/sprocket interface more flush Im still having the same problem. The new/correct spacer/adapter does not fit in the sprocket flush, see pics. The pic below are of the so called correct adapter.

Can anyone chime in on this ??!!!
Thanks for any help

 

[Tallbikeman]

It looks like you might have a 19mm axle. Profile uses a spacer inside the BB that spaces the bearings properly and you figured that out. Basically the bolts press on the cranks and sprocket assembly and are tightened to torque specification. You can use the flat spacers to move the cranks out a little more or not. Basically the axle will not be flush to each crank and that is because you need to have the cranks pushing against each other through the sprocket assembly, the inside bearing race, the spacer inside the BB and the other inside bearing race. The axle will be a bit shorter that the total width of the cranks, sprocket, and internal spacer properly installed. The axle is free to slide side to side. Once tightened this side to side movement should be very minimal. If you have no side to side play then the bearings start to be side loaded as you found out. As long as the sprocket adapter is the right size for your axle and for the Blackjack sprocket it is pinned by the forces of the axle bolts pressing on the cranks on both sides of the BB. The sprocket needs to lie flush with the crank. The flange on the adapter goes inside away from the crank. I use one of these Profile American bottom bracket crank setups on an old modded Chicago Schwinn Varsity for the last 20 years. Great product. I have relubed the crank bearings once in 20 years and it just keeps on chugging in fine fashion. I hope I haven't befuddled you with my illiterate description of the installation.

 

[Tallbikeman]

Some photos of a 20+ yr old Profile 180mm length crank installation. The only issue I've ever had is the bolt that transfers power to the sprocket and holds the sprocket in place would come loose. I finally put on some reversible lock tight and have had no problems since then. My sprocket does not have an adapter and it sits flush with the backside of the right crank. This also lines it up with the bolt hole on the crank perfectly so no side loads are introduced when tightening. I noticed that with the flange of the sprocket adapter between the crank and the sprocket your sprocket was the thickness of the flange away from where it should land. I noticed the wobble of the sprocket in your video and this is the reason why. By the way I disassemble this crank setup with a rubber mallet. Its and interesting and very durable product.

 

[spleeft]

Thanks for those replies TBM!
Ive pretty much resolved the issues. The rep at Profile sent me a new set of cranks and the correct hat washer/ spacer , all he had was Madera though, but they are the same. It sits more flush against the sprocket. The new cranks did NOT want to go on though. Maybe they have a recent change in production that is resulting in quality control?? In the end the chain line is just good enough to work and the sprocket has almost no wobble. I wanted to be able to switch out sprockets easily and test out different gear ratio's but I'm over playing around with it now. Ill get back to it but like I told the rep, I just want to ride it !!!!!
The bike is awsum to ride !!!!!!
build here...
build

 

[Tallbikeman]

Spleeft I checked the Profile online store and found that the older style cranks like yours and mine can come in three axle diameters. 19mm, 22mm and 7/8". All will have various adapters, bearings, spacers ect. My cranks slip very precisely onto the axle and they don't have to be forced. If your cranks won't slip onto your axle there is some other problem. I believe you are using the 19mm axle and there is really no smaller size. The Madera axle is a 19mm heat treated axle. You might call them and ask if Madera axles are needed for Madera crank arms. Maybe the heat treating changes them dimensionally somewhat. Our crank arms have the sprocket lug and can mount a wide array of one piece crank sprockets. Profile makes the Imperial line of sprockets that don't need an adapter for 19mm axles and sprocket lug bolts. They seen to run in the $50 range per sprocket. Profile also makes a spider, the Retro Spider, that sprockets can be mounted to for 19mm axles. You can even make a twin or triple installation with the spider. I hope you find a solution to your problems.

 

[spleeft]

TBM, I think the problem with the Madera cranks was some powder coating was sprayed where it shouldn't have. The rep who sent them was adamant that they are virtually the same crank. The original cranks did slide on/off like you said after the first installation.
One day I will get around to trying different sprockets or chain rings like you mentioned. For now though Ive been riding it , its awsum !

 

[Indyjps]

Sprocket to crank arm bolt. It's not uncommon to use a thin washer there to ensure the sprocket spins true.

Inner spacer installed and filed to size - perfect

Did you shim the crank arms for even spacing from chainstays?

 

[Tallbikeman]

Indyjps I placed my Imperial sprocket as close to the bearing as I could. The left side was run as close as the stock spacer allows it without hitting the chain stays or kickstand. They are pretty even on both sides of the bike. I run a 10 speed rear cassette and wanted my chainline to be in the middle of the cassette. I use 1" pedal extenders to place my size 14 shoes out further so I don't hit the chain stays. I use platform pedals and the extenders allow the pedal to be right under the ball of my foot. Without the extenders my pedal would not reach across the bottom of my shoe.