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Jeffery A. Hunt

Jeffery A. Hunt

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Having issues with my rear wheels, but Standard Suggestons* don't really apply and Simple Solutions* are anything but. Not all trykes are made the same and this is especially true when it comes to the rear ends. Because the build is so different, routine maintenence and basic part replacement can be more complicated than it seems. My tryke has presented a plethora of challenges for me, partly because I never had one before and partly because I have ideas that do not recognize the limits of my experience.
Several modifications have been made so far, but the rear wheels have to be dealt with in order to actually be able to take this thing out riding. Normally, having a wheel slightly out of true is not great, but when there's 2 wheels on 1 axis and both are even barely out of true, it amplifies the problem exponentially. Not being able to swap out parts easily due to unavailability of these parts creates a whole 'nother nightmare. I made a small list of normal, logical, apparent *SS's, followed by why they're not *SS's after all.
SS #1 Why can't you just true the wheels? Right, But...Flanges on hubs have taken abuse and show slight anomalies in shape, while the hoops themselves may be warped and could also be blamed for wheels being un-true. Not sure they can be trued at this point.
SS #2 Change the whole wheel? Good idea! Easy if the hubs are normal, but they're not, not even close, and after looking extensively, no replacements have been located. The current hubs affix to the axle by cotterpin or similar, and do not move independant of the axle like normally seen.
SS #3 Get new hoops & re-lace the wheels, and why not go with 26" hoops instead of 24"? Again, good idea! But, if the hubs are bent from abuse, the wheels still may not true, PLUS because the hubs are 28 spoke, and 26" hoops start at 32 spoke, it's either 24" hoops and hope they'll true or replace the hubs, but see answer to SS #2.

There must be a solution to this, I just have yet to find it. Finding replacement hubs would be a start, even better would be a 26" solution, but whatever works will do. If lacing the wheel from parts keeps the cost down, even better. A consideration for one's budget is always in play.
20240827_192657.jpg
 
I am making a mental note to never work on a trike. I never have.

There have been others in this site with similar trike problems. I don’t recall if they were ever resolved.

I believe the rear wheels on trikes take a lot of sideways force. The rims are likely bent.

My thought is to remove the hubs, and re lace the wheels with new spokes and rims. Have you been able to remove the cotter pins? If not I have some ideas. In my opinion removing the cotter pins is the next step.
 
I thank you for your reply. The wheels are easily removed from the rear, the cotter pins were never NOT removable. The bolt thru the hub and axle is in place of the HUGE cotter pin that was there. You are quite correct about the side force which is another reason the hubs are different- They are made of steel and are quite the heavy duty steel at that, as seen in the pic. New hoops and new spokes and nipples may be what I ultimately do, but I think I'm limited to 24" hoops, whereas I thought while I was rebuilding the wheels, I might upgrade to 26", But hoops vs. hubs spokehole count is not same at the 26"size, only the 24"size. I (all of a sudden) guess the 24" size might take the side force better than larger wheels. I really am surprised at the lack of results in my search for replacements for the hubs themselves, I've literally found none. I appreciate your comment. This is the other wheel:
20240827_192744.jpg
 
I just looked at the pictures in your other thread. Cool trike. Now I do want one!

Do you know the history of it? Look like someone built it out of an old mountain bike. Cool gear box.

How bad are the wheels? They didn’t look too bad in the pictures.
 
Thanx! When I first got it there was a beasty old-looking frame attached to it. By "it", I mean the rear end. I looked it over when I first got it and realized that the front end and the rear end could be separated, so first thing I did was get them apart. The Gary Fischer was my casual rider MTB and with loosening a few bolts and putting the MTB wheel back on it, it can be original in about 10 minutes. The real star of the show is that rear end which can be bolted to not any, but MANY conventional bike frames and Voila! a (enter brand name here) Tryke is born. It was almost a KHS or a Cannondale, but the GF was right there and bolted up great first try. It was an in-hub style 3-speed when I got it, but not knowing that I couldn't, I completely rebuilt one of the rear axles, and turned it into a 24-speed psycho-tryke. There are a couple adjustments that still need to be addressed for the thing to utilize all 24, but it will shift into all of them. The differential does allow each wheel to be powered like a car is where whichever wheel has the less drag gets the power. Tilt it to one side and the wheel off the ground spins, tilt to the other side blah blah same same. Kind of a trip that if the axle is moving the wheels are too. I tell people that ask about it that the Wheels don't turn, the axle does, and there are no bearings in the rear wheels, but they do roll. I am often the recipient of very blank stares.
 
This is getting more and more interesting! I need more pics or even a video. It looked welded on to me. And how you changed from internally geared to a derailleur is of great interest. Is the rear end a kit? Any idea what it is called?

How out of true are the wheels? I’m wondering if they just need to be trued.
 
I appreciate the links, I really do. The only issue for me is that my rear hubs are unlike any that I see for sale anywhere.
First-My hubs dont have bearings or a need for bearings because the wheels do not turn on the axle and instead roll with it, they are attached to the axle directly, in that the wheels slide onto the axle and a pin/bolt goes thru them and thru the axle and holds them in position. When the axle turns the wheels roll. I have not seen any like them.
I'm gonna take a few more detailed pics, maybe even pull a wheel, get some shots of the rear end, maybe someone will recognize the rear end for what it is or maybe even has/had one.
Fingers crossed.
 
I have never worked on a trike, so please take my advice with a grain of salt. (Whatever that means!)

What is the diameter of the axle?

This rear trike wheel says it is for a 17mm axle with three notches. Do you have three notches?

https://www.huskybicycles.com/tricycle-wheel-24-x-2125-rear-for-17mm-axle-and-solid-tire.html

I also wonder if you could knock the bearing cups out of an old hub. That would probably allow enough room to fit them on the axle. Then somehow fasten it to the axle. Might be a ratty solution. Or if you have access to a machine shop, you could custom make something to help.

Really, I don’t know what I’m talking about. But I am interested.

Also, is the hub damaged? Why not re-use the hubs?
 
Thanx for the reply. My axle does not have 3 notches. As seen in the pic the axle has a single groove and the hub has a single groove, dimpled/punched from the outside inward, that aligns with the axle groove. I had attempted a modification of a pair of wheels for conversion for the rear, but found that while I could get a groove punched into the hub to lock it onto the axle, the strength of the material could not bear the torque incurred and also attachment was an issue due to the lack of the wide flange that the pin/bolt goes thru on the original hubs. Then there was the issue of the side torque that the wheels incurr when turning as they are perpendicular and do not lean into turns like a bike does. Needless to say, I understood right away why the hubs are made of such heavy steel and the hoops and spokes are heavier gauge than most wheels. As far as the hubs current damage, the flange the spokes thread thru is slightly wavy, not crazy bent but you can certainly see the wavy motion when the wheels turn, and I think the hoops themselves might be warped/bent also. The hubs are 28-spoke and not real common in my area for 28-spoke hoops, especially in 26", to replace and re-lace. 32 and 36 are easy, but can't find ANY hubs to be able to make the swap. Short of a machinist fabbing me some hubs, or even a welder doing same, My options ain't great so far. As always one's budget has final say if/when a solution presents itself. I remain optimistic but realistic.
 
I found this on eBay.
IMG_5581.png


Do you know the brand name of the trike kit?

Also, I believe smaller wheels are stronger than larger wheels. You may want to stick with 24in. I do see plenty of 20in rims with 28h. And you could probably put fat tires on the 20in rims.

Just some ideas.
 
I've owned many three wheelers and repaired many trikes for others. Most were abused and neglected. Abuse from treating them like stunt machines. They are not. Most were intended for, well, senior citizens in flat retirement communities. Riding off curbs, trying to drift, riding up on 2 wheels are all sure ways to ruin the rims. Many are left out for years to rust up solid. I still have 5 of my own that need various work and new homes.

That rear end looks like the Schwinn Town and Country with a differential. Differential version introduced in the early 1970s. Most trikes are 1 wheel drive including the 1960s Schwinns. Their differential was made from stamped sheet metal, both the gears and housing. Pretty feeble and there are zero parts for them. I've seen one other brand of trike from the 1960s/1970s that had a differential but it was the same unit used on some riding lawnmowers. It was considerably larger and stronger than the Schwinn. Personally I would not spend much effort on that diff. It could be trashed already. Designed by some engineer with no transmission experience. Car mechanics would be appalled by it's construction.

"Live Axles" are used on some other vehicles like every front wheel drive car. The slots in the axle and hub are for an "Axle Key". A square bit of metal that can take some force but designed to rip apart if torque is too much. Same as a flywheel key on a lawn mower. Available at hardware stores.

The first Schwinn dealer sold 3 wheelers were 24" girls cruisers with a "Ret Bar" kit added. After a while Schwinn bought the company and thus was born the Town & Country Tri Wheeler. All bits factory painted to match. The first few years were 1 wheel drive. They kept the too-short crank arms. A good upgrade is longer cranks so you can get started easier and actually go up hills. Rather wobbley overall and a rater un-ergonmic riding position. Both versions of the Schwinn's from the 1960/1970s were bolt on addons for regular bikes. No special frames. Easier to ship and no special manufacturing needed for trike frames. Let the dealer do much of the work assembling them.

Pretty much every manufacturer has it's own way of attaching wheels with it's unique hubs. The currently popular Schwinn Meridian is about the easiest to strip out, ever. Worksman is still in business making industrial duty trikes in various models.

Most trikes have 24" rear wheels. Commonly available in 28h. Schwinn being Schwinn used some off beat size so regular tires won't fit. There are endless 24" bsos that are good sources for 24" 28h rims and tires. I have a few dozen in the dungeon. (cedar rapids iowa) They will be slightly smaller bsd but not enough to matter.

Most 26" 28h rims are for very lightweight high end mountain bikes and are rather rare.

Bent hub flanges are a non-issue. Unless you try to straighten aluminum. Twink.

That bolt that is holding the wheel on. I'd replace it with a grade 8 cap head with a shoulder (far more sheer resistant) and a nylock nut so it doesn't rattle off.
 
The jack shaft assembly with the 7 speed freewheel appears to be home made. Schwinn used Sturmey Archer or Shimano 3 speed hubs depending on the model year.
 
That is more info than I have gotten ever. It was a 3 speed with a crap frame when it got to me, and the front-rear axle was defo homemade, by me Here's a good shot of the rear from behind. Does it help identify it any? Since the hubs are heavy steel, could I lightly hammer them straight without too much grief and repercussion(sp)? Providing I don't beat the heck out of them, I should be able to get them pretty close to straight, yes? 24"sounds like the way to go, so 28-spoke 24"hoops, new heavy spokes and nipples and it should be close to riding, I think. I hear you on the bolt, it had giant cotter pins in when I got it, and I do have some. Wonder what Gary Fisher would think about this beast?
20240827_193505.jpg

20240827_192728.jpg
 
yep, Schwinn rear end.

One technique for straightening the hub flanges is to use a small crescent wrench for leverage. I've done that for sprockets/chain rings. Easier if there aren't any spokes in the way.
 
Wow, now that is a whole 'nother nightmare right there! Thanks for the heads up.

I would like to, again, thank those who have replied to my post.
TwoJs.Bike- You were especially helpful and into it, you are a credit to this site!
RickPaulos- Your knowledge single handedly cracked the code, as it were, on just what I have. You might get with TwoJs and maybe get him a Tryke, I think he may be ready!
CurtisFox- I now know where to go if I need a serious upgrade.

I guess, at the end of the day, that simple solutions did come into play & standard suggestions to an anything but standard issue were more help than I expected,too. Also, once the hub issues had a planned fix, the giant clusterf#@% that was standing in my way was one that could be whittled down and managed after all. I will be straightening the hubs by hand (you know what I mean) before re-lacing them myself. Truing them....well, we'll give it a shot, but don't go hatin' if they have a quick shop visit, ya' know?! Once the wheels are deconstructed, I will assess the hoops for viability and road-worthyness. With luck they aren't as bent and warped as I fear, we'll see. Fingers crossed, y'all!
 

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