since my cheapo falcon hub bit the dust on my Klunkinator I was wondering...Is a 3 speed coaster brake hub strong enough to klunk with? mind you I'm 57 and my "No Fear" days are well behind me, so it wouldn't get beat up too bad, and it would be nice to have a gear or 2 more, but not if it's fragile enough to have me walking.
3 speed coaster for klunker use?
- Thread starter Bigcam59
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I believe it will be fine if it is a 3 speed nexus internal hub , coster brake . I'm putting one on mine if I ever get it done . I did some research & asked around. I was told they held up well . The one guy said he had used one for years beat on he was 250lb & it's held up. As long as you don't over heat it to bad . If you also have a front brake that will help that problem.
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I've heard on various online discussion groups that the Nexus 3 seem like a mixed bag; some blow up almost immediately, while others keep on keepin' on forever. Whatever you do, make sure your direct drive ratio is at or above 2:1; running lower ratios will almost certainly kill that hub.
A guy on the Klunkers and Such Nonsense FB group was showing off his bike, which was very hott, and it had a vintage F&S 3 speed; he said it's been going strong for quite some time. That might be on option.
Alot of folks run Sturmey-Archer AWC and other such S-A hubs; some guys seem to like'm, whereas other report that they blew up.
I read a post about the later-model SRAM 3 speed dying a gruesome and early death on a thread on mtbr. Apparently, you definitely wanna avoid those.
I realize that this is all anecdotal, but i've never had the courage to run an IGH off-road. So, no personal experience. I intend to build a Nuvinci-powered trail bike soon, but those don't come with coasters, and are spaced at 135mm, so they won't work on your Shelby...
A guy on the Klunkers and Such Nonsense FB group was showing off his bike, which was very hott, and it had a vintage F&S 3 speed; he said it's been going strong for quite some time. That might be on option.
Alot of folks run Sturmey-Archer AWC and other such S-A hubs; some guys seem to like'm, whereas other report that they blew up.
I read a post about the later-model SRAM 3 speed dying a gruesome and early death on a thread on mtbr. Apparently, you definitely wanna avoid those.
I realize that this is all anecdotal, but i've never had the courage to run an IGH off-road. So, no personal experience. I intend to build a Nuvinci-powered trail bike soon, but those don't come with coasters, and are spaced at 135mm, so they won't work on your Shelby...
The old Shimanos were not very tough, and are a chore to service, and if submerged they will need it. Gearing them way down helps with reducing the chance of breakage, and providing usable ratios. The old 2-spd Bendix and 3-spd Sturmey-Archer hubs are better. I don't know about more recent models. I would say use a derailleur set-up, but that could be quite a trick to pull off with rear entry dropouts.
The gear adjustment is very important to have set perfectly. I've used Shimano, Sachs, and SA 3 speed w coasters on my old cruisers. The only problems came when the gears weren't adjusted just right or an old hub needed more lube. None gave out on me. I put many miles, on and off road, especially on the SA and Shimano with no problem and I didn't baby them. The coaster brakes aren't as good as a normal one speed, so front brakes would be a plus.
Really, what it is more than anything, is that high-torque situations will strip out the internals. The coaster brake isn't the culprit, although in some cases, the coaster can exacerbate things. What makes it different offroad is, to some degree, you're gonna be standing on the pedals and mashing to get over obstacles and up short-n-steeps, which is a lot of load.... but the other issue, the one that the folks who manufacture these things usually mention in their tech docs, is that you will kill them quick with low gears, due to increased torque. For all Sturmey-Archers (except the 8speed), Shimanos, and SRAM, the magic number is 2:1. On a 26" bike with a 3 speed, this is going to be something like a 39" low, 52" direct, and 70" overdrive (Sturmey-Archer) to a 38/52/71" (Shimano Nexus 3, most SRAM/F&S 3 speeds), which, in truth, isn't very low. Most folks riding trails will be tempted to go with a smaller ratio, and then they strip out the guts. Even Rohloff demands ratios equal to or greater than 2.4:1; Nuvinci suggests that 1.8:1 is the lowest allowable. The problems are worse in low gear, which is why there's not much concern for the Sturmey 8 speed, since 1st is direct-drive, with the other 7 gears being overdrive.... which means that a very low ratio is plum-necessary, whether you're riding trails or not.
I agree that proper set-up and state of tune are crucial for IGHs in general, but even if you have it tuned perfectly, you're probably gonna turn the guts to guacamole if you go much below the manufacturer's minimum recommended ratio. Surely, someone is gonna chime in with "I rode the Great Divide twelve times, on a 1973 Shimano 3CC, running a 36t front and a 24t rear, and had no problems".... and yeah, i guess anything is possible, but let's be realistic here.
In all honesty, i'm stoked to try the NuVinci N360 with the 1.8:1 ratio (which'd give me a range of 23.5" to 85" on a 26" wheel), but that's an expensive hub and it's got me thrown off that they don't want you to ever even service it yourself.... but, aside from that pipedream, i tend to like singlespeeds with low gearing for offroad riding, and derailer systems for those trail rides that need variable gears. Derailers are simply more robust, and far more easily maintained/serviced trailside. Rohloff hubs, apparently, can hold up to incredible abuse offroad, but they cost like $1400 these days. Gimme an old Bendix, or even the lowly cb-e110.... I can make it work on a $20 hub, no problem.
I agree that proper set-up and state of tune are crucial for IGHs in general, but even if you have it tuned perfectly, you're probably gonna turn the guts to guacamole if you go much below the manufacturer's minimum recommended ratio. Surely, someone is gonna chime in with "I rode the Great Divide twelve times, on a 1973 Shimano 3CC, running a 36t front and a 24t rear, and had no problems".... and yeah, i guess anything is possible, but let's be realistic here.
In all honesty, i'm stoked to try the NuVinci N360 with the 1.8:1 ratio (which'd give me a range of 23.5" to 85" on a 26" wheel), but that's an expensive hub and it's got me thrown off that they don't want you to ever even service it yourself.... but, aside from that pipedream, i tend to like singlespeeds with low gearing for offroad riding, and derailer systems for those trail rides that need variable gears. Derailers are simply more robust, and far more easily maintained/serviced trailside. Rohloff hubs, apparently, can hold up to incredible abuse offroad, but they cost like $1400 these days. Gimme an old Bendix, or even the lowly cb-e110.... I can make it work on a $20 hub, no problem.
Speaking as someone who has destroyed a few, one very important aspect in successfully using internal gears in a performance application is a bit of finesse on the part of the rider when shifting or reversing pedal direction. With the right touch, you could probably even get a Falcon coaster to work for several miles.
My response was referring to the original post, not going too hard off road. If you hammering down, then a good solid single speed coaster is what you can count on time and time again. A red band Bendix would be my choice.
Red Bands seem to be the current "weapon of choice" for today's klunkin' enthusiasts. The guys in Cali in the 70s swore on the morrow, but those are hard to come by, nowadays. Personally, I like cb-e110 hubs, b/c they brake well and when they die (and, all klunk hubs die eventually), every part is available for cheap.... plus i don't feel like i've destroyed an irreplaceable piece of cycling history while goofing off on trails. That's just me, though. FWIW, i'm running an RB2 on my buildoff bike....
Then there's the 2 speeds. But they have internals like the 3 speeds. The 2 speed I use is the SRAM Automatix, it shifts at a certain speed whether you want to or not, and it operates by centrifugal force, so hitting a bump sometimes changes gears. It wouldn't be good for off road. The other 2 speeds, yellow band and red band, are direct drive in high gear, which means they would be more prone to give out in low gear, where it's needed most. The blue band Bendix is different though, it's direct drive in low gear. that might work, but it's harder to find one of those. The newer SA 2 speed kickbacks are direct drive in low also, but I don't know how well they handle off road.
The older F&S Torpedo Duomatic is like both the older and the newer Sturmey 2 speeds and the blue band: low is direct, with a 1.38 overdrive. Theoretically, these would live begtter offroad, but apparently the newer Sturmey kickbakcs with coasters are prone to problems, wereas the freewheel version is supposedly much more robust. I wish SRAM would offer a manual kickback version of the Automatix (itself just a modern iteration of the old F&S version; SRAM bought out F&S in the 90s); even still, in my experience, the body language used by folks riding trails would lead to inadvertent shifts even with a manual kickback. Still, i have a Worksman on-deck with canti-posts, and i'm gonna build it with a Sturmey S2 kickback (no brake) just to see how i like it....
I think the direct/over kickbacks should hold up pretty good offroad compared to 3+ speed IGHs, but they still cannot touch the singles in terms of durability. Of course, a lot of offroad mtb guys are running Shimano Alfine 8 hubs on singlespeed frames and while the hubs can be glitchy, they apparently hold up really well, even with "illegally" low primary gear ratios....
Decades ago I had manual shift 2-speed Bendix with direct and a planetary low. After settling on the right sprocket (front, rear was a permanent part of the driver) 1st worked great for climbing and off road, 2nd for flat paved and downhill. Pretty much had to completely unload the pedals to shift without crunching or racking yourself in a neutral zone, so I guess it wasn't much in terms of "performance", but it took a lot of abuse. Braking in low gear was incredible, had to be experienced to be believed. I actually tried to find it when I first joined the forums, but apparently I either traded it off at some point, or I stashed it some place "safe". 
A little too safe. 
A little too safe. 
During the build off I have been messing around with a straight bar schwinn. My intentions were just a patinad rat style cruiser but over the last couple months I've changed parts till I flound what I liked. it has basically turned into another offroad build. I put a set of wheels on it with a nexus 3 speed. It does have a 36t Schwinn front sprocket. I did do some reading which was also backed up most of these replies. I had my own theory, I'll probably wind up wrong but well see. I'm running it. I'm really not doing anything too crazy, just want some help to get up hills.
I agree, using a little sense, setting stuff carefully, lubing components, most of this stuff is pretty good I think if you don't push it to much.
Here is a video of a guy who sets out to destroy a malwart Mongoose...
The rider says,"Now, keep in mind, an experienced rider can do pretty gnarly maneuvers on even an entry level bike. It’s when you start crashing and taking hard landings that you can really tell what a bike is made of. This bike is made of pure, liquefied garbage. It must be. The parts bend very easily, but you can just bend them back."
So-if most internal hubs like a lower gearing, putting an old SA 3-speed with fresh oil in the reservoir (yeah, it has an oil reservoir) into a 20" rim should be golden, right?
Because I am totally planning this as soon as I can afford the rims and spokes...
Because I am totally planning this as soon as I can afford the rims and spokes...
If you can find a 36 spoke 20" rim.
The smaller diameter rim will give you a lower range, but won't increase the torque on the hub like a smaller chain wheel will. So that might work for you. If you're going to ride it hard it still has the disadvantages of an 3 speed hub. When I changed to a smaller chain wheel on a 26" bike, first gear was like granny, but I was always searching for a gear between 2nd and 3rd, because 2nd was too low, and 3rd was too high to cruise along with.
Another consideration on the 20" is the length of the crank arms. On some 20" bikes, there's not a lot of ground clearance, so the cranks are shorter, resulting in less torque you can put to the chain wheel. But if the cranks are as long as a bigger bike and you have enough ground clearance for offroad, no problem.
My off road bike has a 20" 2 speed auto that works well for going through the sand in 1st gear, using a 40 tooth chain wheel and 18 tooth cog. Then 2nd is just about perfect for riding on the street.
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Many thanks!
Yeah, finding the 36-hole 20" rim will be the main issue- if I can't find one cheap i'll save it for another project, maybe use it as a 'jackshaft' gear on something with a long chainline...
Yeah, finding the 36-hole 20" rim will be the main issue- if I can't find one cheap i'll save it for another project, maybe use it as a 'jackshaft' gear on something with a long chainline...
