Another estate sale find...what is it?

[drabe]

I played hooky from work last Friday and went estate sale shopping and brought this home.
It's missing the headbadge and I'm thinking it's a '60s or so Western Flyer but I'm not exactly sure (I haven't looked for any numbers yet). Any ideas?

This may become my first rat rod build eventually, mainly due to the bent forks (I'm in the middle of another house project, so it'll be at least another week or so before I get to it). I've already got plenty of ideas. I'll probably swap the crank and block pedals for my Krusty Higgins bike though.

Anyway, some of the things throwing me off its identification are the mis-matched wheels (not sure which one should be original) and the chainguard (not sure if it's original to this bike either).
So far the only thing I've done is yank the basket which will probably go on on of the wife's bikes.

 

[Wildcat]

Looks like an AMF Roadmaster, going by the curve of the upper rear stays, dropouts, and seat stem that tightens like a handle stem. The sprocket I don't recognize.

 

[2manybikes]

I think the sprocket is from a Shelby

 

[ratina]

I think the sprocket is from a Shelby

Thats what I was going to say

 

[deorman]

I also think the frame is AMF.

 

[rms37]

Your new bike is an AMF product circa 1960 plus or minus. The post-balloon AMF products are harder to date than many of the earlier bikes because the frame patterns were fewer in number and not modified as often as they had been before the company was moved to Little Rock Arkansas from Cleveland Ohio.

In 1954 AMF began using the rear dropouts with the bent fender strut tab. These are a hallmark of AMF frames into the 1960’s.

The chain guard on your find is an AMF pattern guard introduced in 1954 and used on various models for several years so it is likely original to the bike.

The Frame is not earlier than 1958 which is the year AMF introduced their cantilever frame.

The Shelby pattern sprocket was inherited when AMF purchased The Shelby Company in 1953 and was also used somewhat indiscriminately by AMF on various models for several years.

I have collected a few serial numbers for post balloon AMF products but not enough to identify patterns to ascribe production years to the bikes. If you don’t mind posting the number when you get a chance I will add it to the list I have to help build a data base.

 

[drabe]

Your new bike is an AMF product circa 1960 plus or minus. The post-balloon AMF products are harder to date than many of the earlier bikes because the frame patterns were fewer in number and not modified as often as they had been before the company was moved to Little Rock Arkansas from Cleveland Ohio.

In 1954 AMF began using the rear dropouts with the bent fender strut tab. These are a hallmark of AMF frames into the 1960’s.

The chain guard on your find is an AMF pattern guard introduced in 1954 and used on various models for several years so it is likely original to the bike.

The Frame is not earlier than 1958 which is the year AMF introduced their cantilever frame.

The Shelby pattern sprocket was inherited when AMF purchased The Shelby Company in 1953 and was also used somewhat indiscriminately by AMF on various models for several years.

I have collected a few serial numbers for post balloon AMF products but not enough to identify patterns to ascribe production years to the bikes. If you don’t mind posting the number when you get a chance I will add it to the list I have to help build a data base.

Hey Phil, I see your on here (as well as the CABE) too!
Not sure which site your visit more often (I'm on here more) so I posted my reply on both (figuring the answers will help a broader audience).

Thanks for the excellent info!
Can you tell if either the front or rear wheel is original? The front has a 'flat' rim and the rear is a drop center with a single speed Bendix hub.

More pics.

I'll try to get the numbers off of the frame as soon as I can.

I was actually going to 'rat rod' this bike, but now I don't know if I should.
Are Shelby/AMF bikes rare at all or fairly common. I have to admit this is the first one I've seen.
I know it's my bike and I can do what I want, but if this is rare at all I don't want to cut it up!

Thanks again for all you help!
Dave

 

[2manybikes]

Are you sure that the rear hub is not a two speed manual? Sure looks like it has wide flanges. Is there a hole in the axle on the chain side?

 

[deorman]

Didn't notice before, that definitely looks like a 2-speed planetary low type hub. :!: Notice also the bulge on the chain side where the gears go.(If they're in there) But it looks like a solid axle in the pics. They had tiny little rods that were easily lost or broken, it might be one, but be missing internals.

 

[bikesntrikes]

Nice looking rat!

I just have to say one thing, "I need more cow bell!" Great avatar.

 

[thesuicideride]

I have collected a few serial numbers for post balloon AMF products but not enough to identify patterns to ascribe production years to the bikes. If you don’t mind posting the number when you get a chance I will add it to the list I have to help build a data base.

i have a amf roadmaster similar to this but its a straight bar. its badge looks like a cwc's. ill try to post a pic as well as the numbers tomorrow for your research. thanks for the backround info on these.

 

[rms37]

Hi Dave,
I frequent both the CABE and this site, as you noted the information is useful to both groups so I answered you in both places.

Here are a few more bits of information relevant to your bike and questions.

The original badge identity of the bike could have been several things. It might have been badged as a Shelby, (AMF used the name until 1962) but it might have been badged as something else. Once AMF owned Shelby the specific Shelby content dwindled rapidly until the Shelby offerings were little if any different than their Roadmaster counterparts. The sprocket in particular was co-opted for use on several Roadmaster models, particularly some of the Roadmaster Flying Falcon models.

Cleveland Welding, The original owners of the Roadmaster brand, developed their own balloon rims in the late 40’s. The CWC rims have a rectangular cross-section and have a small flute pressed into the edge between the top and the sides. AMF continued to manufacture and use these rims into the early sixties so I can’t say for certain but it is possible that both the wheels are replacements.

The story I have been told is that the AMF take over of Shelby was a hostile boardroom type of transaction. Shelby was available and AMF bought the company more to eliminate competition and gain market share though established Shelby dealers and outlets than for the physical spoils of the purchase. The Shelby factory in Shelby Ohio was closed and manufacturing was first moved to Cleveland and then to Little Rock Arkansas.

AMF continued to make Shelby badged bicycles to satisfy long term Shelby dealers going so far as to manufacture special modified frames to accept remaining Shelby stock parts. As quickly as possible the models evolved into generic ones with mainly badge, paint and decal differences.

Round-a-bout this answers your questions about the rarity of AMF Shelby’s, Your bike may or may not have been a Shelby, either way it was produced after the period when the AMF built Shelby’s were strongly distinguished from standard AMF models. While those models are at least uncommon if not rare, the cantilever AMF frames were produced in large numbers for several years and are not in themselves uncommon.

Thanks for posting the bike, I am looking forward to more serial numbers from the late 50’s and 60’s AMF models to hopefully find serial number to date correlations.

 

[Wildcat]

Definitely a 2 speed hub, Identical to one I had, no stripes. It doesn't shift automatically, it uses a shifter, usually on the handlebars.

Good luck with the bike, rat or otherwise.

 

[drabe]

Are you sure that the rear hub is not a two speed manual? Sure looks like it has wide flanges. Is there a hole in the axle on the chain side?

Good question!
I noticed the flanges too but I would've never guessed it was a 2 speed hub. I'll have to look!

 

[drabe]

Nice looking rat!

I just have to say one thing, "I need more cow bell!" Great avatar.

Thanks!
It was one of those 'Couldn't pass it up' deals, on both the bike and the avatar!
I still crack up when I see that!

 

[drabe]

Hi Dave,
I frequent both the CABE and this site, as you noted the information is useful to both groups so I answered you in both places.

Here are a few more bits of information relevant to your bike and questions.

The original badge identity of the bike could have been several things. It might have been badged as a Shelby, (AMF used the name until 1962) but it might have been badged as something else. Once AMF owned Shelby the specific Shelby content dwindled rapidly until the Shelby offerings were little if any different than their Roadmaster counterparts. The sprocket in particular was co-opted for use on several Roadmaster models, particularly some of the Roadmaster Flying Falcon models.

Cleveland Welding, The original owners of the Roadmaster brand, developed their own balloon rims in the late 40’s. The CWC rims have a rectangular cross-section and have a small flute pressed into the edge between the top and the sides. AMF continued to manufacture and use these rims into the early sixties so I can’t say for certain but it is possible that both the wheels are replacements.

The story I have been told is that the AMF take over of Shelby was a hostile boardroom type of transaction. Shelby was available and AMF bought the company more to eliminate competition and gain market share though established Shelby dealers and outlets than for the physical spoils of the purchase. The Shelby factory in Shelby Ohio was closed and manufacturing was first moved to Cleveland and then to Little Rock Arkansas.

AMF continued to make Shelby badged bicycles to satisfy long term Shelby dealers going so far as to manufacture special modified frames to accept remaining Shelby stock parts. As quickly as possible the models evolved into generic ones with mainly badge, paint and decal differences.

Round-a-bout this answers your questions about the rarity of AMF Shelby’s, Your bike may or may not have been a Shelby, either way it was produced after the period when the AMF built Shelby’s were strongly distinguished from standard AMF models. While those models are at least uncommon if not rare, the cantilever AMF frames were produced in large numbers for several years and are not in themselves uncommon.

Thanks for posting the bike, I am looking forward to more serial numbers from the late 50’s and 60’s AMF models to hopefully find serial number to date correlations.

Phil, all I can say is WOW! :shock:
Your knowledge is staggering, I knew someone would have answers to my questions about this bike but man, I didn't expect this much detail!!
:shock: Are you planning on writing a book?

Thanks to all that have responded I've learned a lot!

As far as to 'Rat rod' it or not...I'll let the bike tell me! :lol:

BTW Phil, here are the numbers stamped on the bottom of the frame; H52303, let me know if this seems to fall in line with the numbers you've collected so far.
Thanks!