Anyone use an English wheel to straighten out fenders?

[DJ Bill]

I don't own a fender roller, but I do happen to have a Harbor Freight English wheel I bought on sale when they were clearancing out the old design wheels. While I did have some success with it, I still think a fender roller is the way to go for smaller damage.

Initially I thought using my rubber tire upper wheel would be the way to go, but the fender had too much damage and I couldn't get it do reshape more than the basic shape using the smallest radius lower anvil and the rubber tire top wheel. So, I figured the fender was junk anyhow and I swapped for the flat upper wheel in steel.

What I wasn't sure about was just how much pressure to use to flatten out the dents. Eventually I just kept cranking the bottom adjuster until the fender got smooth, but there was another problem now that the fender metal was all smooth. I tried wheeling along the length of the fender, side to side, and diagonally but all resulted in the fender flattening out from side to side, and curving in from the ends, with a result that I had a wide fender more suited for a 12 inch wheel instead of the 26 it was made for.

I had seen this result before so I knew what to do... Bike fenders are pretty flimsy so all I had to do was grab both ends and pull them apart...as the ends get farther away from each other the sides of the fender move back to where you want them. Most of the the rest of the shaping was done by squeezing the sides of the fender together by hand, using my thumbs to make the bend more in the sides than the center of the fender. I used a pair of large end nipper pliers to add some more curve to the sides. If I had a suitable dolly some mallet and dolly work would have done a bit better work on the edge...

While the end result is not what I'd call show quality work, it did save a totally junk fender.. I was out of time to spend on iit but probably spent less than an hour working on it. More time and care and I think I could have made it paint ready.

No clue what the fender was from.. had a small Gulco reflector on it and two straight braces....

Any suggestions for improving my technique? I still want to build a roller with a large diameter convex wheel and a small diameter concave wheel, which I think is the cure for the total reshaping problem.

Pictures to follow.

 

[DJ Bill]

Here is what I started with. Figured I had nothing to lose by trying this one..

Fender had been run over by something along with previous crease damage...here's another shot of it.

I roughed it out with the tire and with some hammer and hand bending work. It was still quite lumpy here in this pic but it doesn't show too well.

 

[DJ Bill]

Fender was opened up so I could get to the brace rivets...so I drilled them out and removed the braces, but the reflector refused to budge....(Anyone got any hot tips on pulling the reflectors without loosening the stud from the aluminum backing when the nuts are rusty?)
I think I got my pics out of order, here was before I tried the rubber tire:

At this point the fender looks unsaveable:

Most of the damaged area was wheeled smooth but as you can see the fender took on much more of a curve in the one direction as it flattened out side to side. I hadn't finished the wheeling around the back end of the fender at this point as I hadn't gotten the reflector off yet..But eventually using two vice grips I got the nut to turn, so it was off.
Here's another view after some more wheeling, you really can see just how much curve it has..

Here's the results after pulling the ends of the fender apart and squeezing the sides together:

You can see one of the creased areas in the center of the fender, which is also in the underside view:

Only the lack of paint in this area remains...the dents are gone.
Here is what the fender looked like after an hour or so in the shop:

Like I said above, it isn't completely finished or the right shape everywhere....but it sure does look better than it did.

 

[The Renaissance Man]

Wow, that's a long way from where it started! I probably would have tossed that one out.

 

[DJ Bill]

Yup, me too, but it was perfect for an experiment. Nothing lost if it turned out to be a futile exercise.
Can anyone ID the fender? It has some additional holes in the back above the reflector hole that don't make sense to me.

 

[todhunter]

Wheeling metal is a skill...looks like you're on your way to learning it! I know some aviation guys that know some people who are really good at it, but it's one of those dying arts.

 

[c.p.odom]

I have used an English Wheel on fenders. Works great. In fact I used a Harbor Freight EW with the exception that the whole tool has been boxed in to eliminate all the flex in the tool.

 

[DJ Bill]

CP....what direction do you track with the wheel and which anvils are you using?

I went diagonally across the fender, and used the smallest radius anvil..

The flex in the tool actually helped me out a bit as it let me roll across the hemmed in fender edge, which in most cases I don't think you'd want to do.

Do you experience the same overall shape change, and if so, how do you get back to normal radius fenders without getting a wavy side to the fender?

I've got the back fender on this one to fix:

Sorry about the 20 questions, but it would be really helpful to know the answers....

I'd love to see your wheel, mine is stock..I do have a set of Hoosier profiles dies, and gradually have been picking up materials to build a nicer wheel. It is a very cool tool to have available.

 

[c.p.odom]

DJ, I only took a few small dents out, no big deal. I do not even remember what I used. I have thought about making some aluminum fenders from scratch. In that case I will give a complete report.

 

[sensor]

The reason you are having the fender change shape by wheeling it out, is you are stretching the metal. Thats what they are meant to do. I'd suggest a hammer,dolly,slapping spoon,and file to bump and finish them. BTW if your wheel frame is flexing you might want to add some gussets or make a new one. They aren't supposed to flex at all FWIW.

 

[Rockit!]

What he said. I knock out the big dents with a hammer and anvil, and then run it through the pneumatic planishing hammer.

 

[DJ Bill]

Do you match you dies to the radius of the fender or ???

(I do have a CP fender hammer in my arsenal but it seems like overkill....)

I think the reason I am getting the fender shape change is that my bottom anvil does not match the fender radius so it is flattening out the fender profile, which makes it curve inward. I could be wrong though, it has happened before. I doubt I am using enough pressure to actually stretch the metal significantly. If you take a fender and push both ends towards each other you get a flatter profile on a smaller diameter fender.

I am still trying to wrap my brain around the different design of fender roller dies compared with an English wheel. It seems to me the fender rollers attempt to match the radius of the fender better, both the lower anvil and the top wheel are contoured. I haven't gotten mine built yet but I do have the raw materials to make it. Maybe once I have it built I will understand better how it works.

One of these days I will brace up the frame for the cheapie wheel and add some anvils with flats, but for the minor dent repair on lightweight fenders I am happy with it.

I think I need to start collecting more junk fenders to experiment on. I have already run out of trashed ones. The fenders on the Schwinn are already repaired. They turned out OK, not perfect.

 

[sensor]

I'm not 100% since I haven't seen a fender roller in person but I think the dies are knurled which would shrink the metal some to compensate for the pressure stretching them. I saw a picture a few years back so I can't say for sure. The best way to describe what an english wheel does is think about putting a pennie on a train track. The pressure from the train running it over makes it thinner and wider, which is basically what wheeling metal does. Not that extreme, but same principal. Even if you don't use a hard pressure,none the less, it is stretching it, thus making it longer since it is becoming thinner.
Just found a picture and yeah the die is knurled so it will shrink it to counter act the stretching from the pressure.

*sorry about the bad spelling and punctuation. Long day and I'm not going back to correct them!*

 

[DJ Bill]

The guys I know who have those fender rollers often cover the knurling with masking tape or have it machined off as it marks up the better fenders..
I have seen one in action, they use very little pressure compared to a wheel. More of a "wash out pass" as the metal shapers like to say. I think the shape of the upper roller has a lot to do with the way it doesn't reshape the curve of a fender.

I just bought a new book on the English wheel, by Bill Longyard, from www.wolfpub.com .. They are on sale right now if anyone wants a superb book on the English wheel. $18.00 for a few more days..

I also have heard of guys using billiard balls on a hard surface to roll dents, I may give that a try with my round edge weight set wheels too.

 

[krate-mayhem]

Hi all,we have only worked on small dents,still learning.


Untitled by krate-mayhem, on Flickr


Untitled by krate-mayhem, on Flickr


Untitled by krate-mayhem, on Flickr

 

[DJ Bill]

Which bottom anvil did you use?

 

[dougfisk]

I very seldom use it anymore. I used one extensively on a rear fender that was covered all over with dents. It (I?) did a mediocre job removing the dents but a great job stretching the fender about an inch so that it no longer fits the bike...

It's just not the right tool for the job.