Ape History Talk?

[Ulu]

Ape hangers.

When did you see your first pair & what was it on?

I first remember seeing apehangers on a motorcycle in 1964. It was in Glendale Arizona, and just before my dad went off to Vietnam. Some guy and his girl and a motorcycle with sleeping bags on a tall girdered sissy bar.

A sky scraping knucklehead chopper, with the hint of a rear fender, and a Honda trail 90 wheel on the front. Tall ape hangers. A Harley springer extended with Ford suspension struts. Fatbobs. Suicide clutch with a mousetrap device.

I was nine years old and I didn’t understand all that at the time, but I found out all about it later.

I always wondered who developed apes originally. Now, in the pains of my arthritic seniority, I am wondering why they were originally developed. Maybe it wasn’t just a styling thing?

I’ve got some lingering wrist damage from sports injuries with basketballs and skateboards and motorcycles.

I can tell when just trying to ride my bicycle, that I want my ape hangers taller and further away so I can stretch my wrists out. I’ve been leaning on them a lot, wrenching and polishing, etc and they are sore. I have aggravated these old injuries.

I believe this is why the invention of ape hangers first happened. Because guys had flown over the handlebars or otherwise jammed up their wrists, and they needed the “traction” (some tension on their hands and wrists) in order to be able to ride the bike.

I know what it feels like after an injury like that. No way could they lean forward and put their weight on their wrists using regular handlebars. Forget riding some German cafe bike with those little clip on handlebars.

Too much clutch action! I can’t imagine riding a Harley with a sticky cable. Even the hydraulic clutch on my bike is a bit much.

I think this problem gave some popularity back to the foot clutch and tank shift or jockey shift. I remember they kind of disappeared and came back and went again, over the years.

So where did you first see a pair of a pair of ape hanger handlebars?

 

[Karate Chicken Industries]

Carson, California

 

[Couch tater]

Apes have been around a long time. My 1927 Edwards & Crist has them and they were an accessory item in the E&C catalog. The catalog calls them California bars.

 

[Kevin B]

Amazing, I had no idea.

 

[RustyGold]

I would think they were for appearance more than anything. There isn't really any practical justification for sissy bars or extended forks either...just 'style'.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

I slept through the muscle bike era. BMX was transitioning to MTB in the neighborhood. But there was this one guy... He had a weird old bike with really really really long forks and strange high handlebars. Looked like the forks would snap and the bars would kill you just looking at them. I rolled on.
Now I'm trying out my first set on Duck Norris. I like the style, but haven't gotten used to the feel

 

[Ulu]

Sissy bars are to tie your gear on to. It’s kind of a luggage rack. You can lean back on the luggage as you ride. If you put the seat right on the rear fender you need something other than the fender struts to hold everything up, because they are not strong enough. If you didn’t have luggage to haul, the sissy bar could be very short.

Eventually they morphed into the combo luggage rack, and that’s what’s on my motorcycle.

I’m not sure when the muscle bike era ended, because I basically quit looking at bicycles about 1973.

The first “Choppers” did not have very long forks. They use the standard 74cid frame and the longer (IIRC, from 45cid) off-road Army forks which were 2” longer than your standard Springer.

Then you got rid of the front fender, you chopped off half of the rear fender, and you took all of the crash bars and accessories, windshields and stuff, off of the bike so it was as light as possible.

Right away they figured out they could make the forks even longer, by sweating on some suspension struts from an old Ford. That began the long fork contest.

Since the object was to make the bike lighter, a whole cavalcade of foreign motorcycle forks were employed, even to the point where Harley Davidson itself bought lightweight Honda style forks from Showa to put on the Sportster. Lots of the showas got extended tubes.

If done correctly, increasing the wheelbase makes for a better high speed straight line stability, and the bike is easier to ride on the freeway.

From the history that I have in print, Radical extended forks and high-rise handlebars did not come out at the same time on the same bike. At some point in the later history they came together.

I have some old photographs that I will try to dig out but they are all in the public domain. Some of you have probably seen them.

 

[Ulu]

Apes have been around a long time. My 1927 Edwards & Crist has them and they were an accessory item in the E&C catalog. The catalog calls them California bars.


View attachment 200478

View attachment 200477

Those were actually no taller than delivery bike bars shown next to them. A miserly 6” tall.

They just weren’t so square. The drawing exagerates the height.

 

[RustyGold]

Sure...sissy bars can function as back rests and luggage racks. I was talking about the sissy bars on choppers, however, which are there for aesthetics.

What you describe when you mention changes made for performance improvements is referring to bobbers which is a separate, though evolutionary related, custom movement.

It's somewhat like comparing Carroll Shelby with Ed Roth.

Extended forks are nearly purely aesthetic. The proof in the pudding is that the vast majority of drag and salt flats bikes did not run extended forks. Increased frame rake sure, but not (significantly) extended forks.

Your rationalization for ape hangers is the best I've heard. But, it's still a rationalization. Above the shoulder ape hangers are borderline dangerous...at shoulders or somewhat below are fine for city riding, but are fatiguing for long rides. Your body is essentially a parachute and arms, shoulders, and back will pay the price on a longer rides. The popularity over the decades is due to aesthetics over anything else.

 

[Ulu]

All your points are well-made, Rusty.

Now the line betwern bobber and chopper is mainly imaginary to me. At least it was in the beginning. Both of them involved at the minimum, a hacksaw, pliers, and screwdriver. Then there was the schism which I think involves long distance rides versus short/dirt/track/trials riding.

But it all started before my time….
I’m relying very much on what I have read.

I recall people started building very short minimalist one-seat choppers, and actually calling them bobbers again, about 10 or 20 years ago, when solo bikes became really popular.

At least that is what I recall. I’m not trying to pontificate or insult anyone’s intelligence here.

I quit keeping up with the motorcycle world completely about 15 years ago. I had already achieved Moto Nerdvana, in my own mind, lol. I went back to old cars after I got enough garage and parking space to do such things again.

If you guys think my ideas are wrong I have no problem discussing them in a civilized manner. I’ve been wrong lots of times. It wouldn’t be a big blow to my ego.

I’ve had all kinds of forks and handlebars on my bikes over the years. I’m not trying to tell you that one position is better than another one all the time. The best thing I found is a motorcycle where I could assume multiple positions on a long ride to spread the stress around.

The next best thing is just a monstrous bike with air suspension. I’m getting too old to ride the monsters.

After a certain point, it’s just too much pain to lean forward on my wrists. I ride the stingray bicycle style for 5+ miles with no discomfort but 5 miles on the townie bike is torture for me.

How long that would be for you depends on the condition of your wrists. Mine are terrible. Skateboards, basketball falls, rusty bolts, playing superman over the handlebars . . . I’ve had a few jamb ups.

After not having ape hangers on a bike for 30 years, I have returned to this.

I will understand anybody that didn’t want to bother reading all of this and just skiped to the picture at the end.


Ohhh my new 34” coaster
(No just kidding. It’s only 24 inches.)

 

[RustyGold]

Now the line betwern bobber and chopper is mainly imaginary to me.

It's similar to klunker vs strandie vs BMX cruiser...they are so similar in design that a single bike could easily fall in all three categories. The more rigid definitions come decades later all in hindsight. Not everyone in the Mt. Tam group used the term, or spelling, of klunker. Grunge was a magazine created term created long after the bands were formed. I wouldn't doubt that bobbed and chopped were synonymous terms, along with many other terms, back in the day.

I just follow the Indian Larry view of Bobbers having to be lean, quick, and nimble...that they were the sport bikes of their day.

But it all started before my time….
I’m relying very much on what I have read.

Ditto...it's why I haven't commented on the origins of the apehanger because all I have to rely on is unsubstantiated conjecture. I've read that it was a modification to despatch bikes in WW2 to counter clothesline anti-motorcycle ....y traps. However, after looking through hundreds of vintage despatch bike photos and not seeing any with any kind of tall handlebar modification...I find it to be a hard theory to accept. If it was common knowledge enough to evolve into the apehanger in the '60s (or earlier)...why can't I find a pic of a modified despatch bike.

My own train of thought is that they evolved from from Frisco bar bobbers or East coast bobbers with cut down buckhorns...but, I can't tell which came first or if the were simultaneous developments.

The tiller bars on bicycles are a bit more clear to me. I've seen several recent bikes with tillers mounted for rise...but, in vintage pics, that rise wasn't rise at all...it was pullback. I assume they were used by short guys to keep that super upright seating position.

The best thing I found is a motorcycle where I could assume multiple positions on a long ride to spread the stress around.

Amen...the truth! That's why I really like flat wide UJM style seats for the street. Lots of room to move around.

After a certain point, it’s just too much pain to lean forward on my wrists. I ride the stingray bicycle style for 5+ miles with no discomfort but 5 miles on the townie bike is torture for me.

After not having ape hangers on a bike for 30 years, I have returned to this.

Everybody is unique. It's obviously more than a fashion statement for you as you do have wrist issues... whatever keeps you on a bike is .

 

[Ulu]

If it comes down to velcro on the grips and gloves, I'll still be there trying to hang on.

 

[69SHOVLHED]

2¢: Bobbers were first because the old flat heads had low compression and didn't make much power; if you wanted to go faster you cut, trimmed, lightened, and removed anything that wasn't absolutely necessary. from what i gather, the guys out in Cali started adding styling like long forks and apes. the sissy bar (I've heard them called packer bars too) was also to keep the ol' lady from falling off. i used to see a lot of the custom made king and queen seats were sort of integrated with the sissy bar. i never had the skills or $ for one of those deals.

 

[Ulu]

. . . . It's obviously more than a fashion statement for you as you do have wrist issues... whatever keeps you on a bike is .

One of the common complaints from tall people in the Nomad club was about wrist pain, and the angle that the stock bars put their wrists. Many people added risers to pull the bars up and/or back. I’m not too tall plus I have long arms, and so I didn’t need to do that.

What I actually did was just tip the bars down a little bit, which works for me.