Dayton /Hiawatha

[someguy83]

Can anyone help me out? Alot of my friends told me to leave my first Gamble's Hiawatha alone cuz the look and patina was perfect. However I still wanted to "rat rod" a bike and low and behold while buying new white walls for the Gamble's I ran across what looked like another Hiawatha. The guy said it was a Hiawatha but it was a "Dayton frame". Since there is no head badge I don't know what it might be. Does anyone know: 1 Did Dayton make frames for Hiawatha? OR Was the guy just blowing smoke? 2 Is this a Dayton or another make all together? 3 What year would it be? I will post what I know about the bike: no head head badge, no chain guard, straight back drop outs with adjusting screws (so possibly pre war?), skip tooth sprocket (also points towards pre war era?) frame is very similar to hiawatha but subtle difference in bottom tube, handle bar mount is same design as well as the drop outs being the same. Best pictures available included. Thanks in advance to all who can help. No matter what it turns out to be it will still become a rat rod bike but would just like to know in case anyone asks what it is made up of. Thanks again
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55540750@N ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55540750@N ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55540750@N ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55540750@N ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55540750@N ... otostream/

 

[Rustinkerer]

I don't recall seeing any Huffman built Hiawathas. (Huffman merged with Dayton sometime prewar. That does look like a Huffman frame, but member 37fleetwood is the expert on them. He's a member here, but also has his own site, Classic Bicycle Fanatics, and has a ton of old catalog pages and such on there. Hiawatha was just a brand name used by Gamble's Dept. store, and most of their bikes were made by either Shelby or Cleveland Welding (later AMF) up to the late 50s. I think there may have been some made by Murray in the 60s as well as AMF, but it's hard to keep track of all the different dept. store bikes!! -Adam

 

[37fleetwood]

HI, I looked at your photos and your Hiawatha is definitely a Shelby. Your other bike is easily identifiable as a 1945-1947 Huffman made bike.
Dayton was always made by Huffman. The Dayton name goes back to 1892. in 1888 George Huffman bought Davis Sewing Machine Company, and started making Dayton bicycles in 1892.
This would be a good article to read.
http://classicbicyclefanatics.com/forum ... b30d9c7938
1947 is the last year for frames like yours. There are a few but not many 1945-46 bikes, yours is most likely a 1947. If it still has it's Morrow rear hub it can be dated, also it may be possible to use the numbers on the back of the fork bridge to come up with a date.
In 1948 the frames are totally different. The crank and sprocket on your bike are Huffman but off of a much earlier bike. Huffman stopped using the "Sweetheart" sprocket in 1938. If you want a more correct Huffman sprocket and crank I would probably have one I would trade you for the earlier one. also one possibility is that it could have had the new Huffman 1/2" pitch chain ring, so you could use regular chain, I may have an extra one of those also.
here's an article on the Huffman sprockets.
http://classicbicyclefanatics.com/forum ... b30d9c7938
if you want to customize it they look great and the tanks though expensive are very cool looking, if you want to put it back together correctly I have lots of photos of original bikes and some extra parts. Huffmans aren't cheap to build but they are very cool.
here is a photo of my 1944 Dayton, it is very similar to yours except for all the black out stuff.

 

[someguy83]

it does not have a morrow hub but a new departure hub what do I need to look for as far as dating the hub and where are the numbers on the fork located?

 

[37fleetwood]

New Departure hubs are not dated. the numbers are on the backside of the fork crown. the crown is the part where the legs meet at the top. some of them have the month and year, some of them don't seem to make sense at all.

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Thanks for all the good info Fleetwood.

 

[37fleetwood]

no problem, I just love the bikes! :lol:

 

[someguy83]

so I looked at the back of the fork crown and found that it has a 45 on it. Does not look like anything else is on it so what if anything does this mean?

 

[37fleetwood]

I'm going to guess that it's a 4 and a 5 not that it will change much. It is possible that it means nothing, as I mentioned before it doesn't always mean much, and there are those that will tell you that it doesn't mean anything ever but as the frame style and features are consistent with it being a date of 4th month of 45. I would say you have as much a chance of that being the date as anything else. This being the case, it would mean that it should have originally been a no-chrome bike like my red and white one. It looks like you might clean the red paint off of the head set cups and see if there is any chrome. The stem and bars have chrome but they may have been changed, though they are about correct. Recently a 1946 has come out and it has a strange mix of chrome and non chrome stuff on it. By 1946 the war was over and some things were becoming available again. It's an interesting bike and would be fun to get to the bottom of. I would caution the optimism on this information as it has been my experience that these late prewar to early postwar bikes don't have any special status or worth in the collecting community. It is worth about as much as any comparable Huffman bike from about 1941-1947.
were you still thinking of making it a custom or going more correct? either way don't throw anything away, especially the head set and bottom bracket bearing set, those are the first thing people throw away, and they shouldn't.

 

[someguy83]

Still want to rat rod it but love knowing the true info when it comes down to somebody asking what it is. I want to be able to say "well it is a 194? Dayton frame, with a ????? springer front end, ?????? seat, custom made ???????" Well you get the idea. Bottom line- I want to have fun with it and if it turns out to be a nothing special frame so be it I bought it to be a rat rod.

 

[someguy83]

Bump Going to start a new post showing progress on the build will add a link to new page soon

 

[someguy83]

Ok here's the link:
http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36020&p=352359#p352359