ELITISM IN RAT ROD BIKE COMMUNITY?
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You mean for example nearly every child in America?
Rat Rod
Owner & Founder
Isn't the mantra of "Built, not bought." rooted in elitism?
I suppose it could be seen that way. I decided to drop that tag line from the new logo a couple of months ago because I didn't really think it fit what we did here (see my avatar). It would basically mean that it was a site geared towards scratch built bikes which we all know it isn't. The funny thing is, I think that line was added to a shirt design by an illustrator way back when and I just let it ride because it sounded kind of cool. Dan at Ichi Bike always gave me a hard time about it because he says he builds them for people to buy.
Here's where it first showed up...
read my post above....My opinion doesn't matter. Once you start caring what others think you are creating elitism. Do what you do, ride what you ride, swap bars or fab a set on your own. Just be happy and ride.
Most of the hobbies I have gotten into at some point turn to the "elite". I can say this has been one that I really enjoy because compared to any of the other hobbies is have gotten into most people here just want to see a cool bike.
I have actually enjoyed it more in the last 2 years, since I have been back in school and we added two kids to the family. Messing with bikes in the little time I have has been very relaxing and being able to share what i work on here is awesome.
So I really do not notice the elitism, I just see it as there are styles for all different kinds of people. I know what I like to build and how i want to build them. Which for some people is way overkill. I also like to see other people come up with really cool stuff I would never build but i can truly appreciate.
I have actually enjoyed it more in the last 2 years, since I have been back in school and we added two kids to the family. Messing with bikes in the little time I have has been very relaxing and being able to share what i work on here is awesome.
So I really do not notice the elitism, I just see it as there are styles for all different kinds of people. I know what I like to build and how i want to build them. Which for some people is way overkill. I also like to see other people come up with really cool stuff I would never build but i can truly appreciate.
As someone who has worked as a bicycle mechanic, I can assure you that nearly everyone who rides a bike doesn't know how work on them. If they could we would have a lot more people coming in for tools and a lot fewer repairs and tune-ups.
Man, This is kinda pointless.
If anyone feels better than someone else just remember there is always someone who is going to be better at it than you. No matter what it is you do. There are also always going to be people who are insecure about themselves and seek approval of others.
The only thing that should matter is if you get a sense of pleasure buy, building, making, modifying or just riding, that's the only thing that should matter.
Do what is in your means and be happy you did something.
If anyone feels better than someone else just remember there is always someone who is going to be better at it than you. No matter what it is you do. There are also always going to be people who are insecure about themselves and seek approval of others.
The only thing that should matter is if you get a sense of pleasure buy, building, making, modifying or just riding, that's the only thing that should matter.
Do what is in your means and be happy you did something.
For me, I'm oblivious to the elitism mentioned in the car hobby, i have my car, i like it, and dont care if others do. The ones that matter like it.
For the rat rod bikes, I havent seen much elitism at all. I build what I find in the price range I can afford. Parts I can't afford to buy, i will make or repurpose from something else. The folks on this site are helpful and encouraging. Each carrying their own skills and styles. And the talent and creativity i see here is impressive, to say the least.
Back to the point I was making, I was a little worried when I joined and then built that bike from a couch frame I might see it, but never did.
For the rat rod bikes, I havent seen much elitism at all. I build what I find in the price range I can afford. Parts I can't afford to buy, i will make or repurpose from something else. The folks on this site are helpful and encouraging. Each carrying their own skills and styles. And the talent and creativity i see here is impressive, to say the least.
Back to the point I was making, I was a little worried when I joined and then built that bike from a couch frame I might see it, but never did.
a rotrod biker in spandex on a vintage road bike , prewar cruise or, chopper , never seen it !Yeah, but they're the only ones that deserve it.
Rat Rod
Owner & Founder
The bottom line is....it comes down to humbleness.
Somebody with a humble heart will usually want to put others before themselves. The self righteous will usually think they know more than others and are constantly trying to prove it. We've all known "that guy" in our lives that always has to be right....even when they're wrong sometimes.
I'm just really thankful that a good majority of the folks here fall into the humble category. Makes such a huge difference in the way an online community functions.
Somebody with a humble heart will usually want to put others before themselves. The self righteous will usually think they know more than others and are constantly trying to prove it. We've all known "that guy" in our lives that always has to be right....even when they're wrong sometimes.
I'm just really thankful that a good majority of the folks here fall into the humble category. Makes such a huge difference in the way an online community functions.
Elitism... I think this is an interesting topic for this forum, b/c generally, most of us seem to avoid elitist attitudes as best we can. But, CeeBee, Sensor, and Patman73 bring up some notable exceptions: RRB members tend to show a lot of pride in the "built, not bought" mantra, and RRB members tend to display a lot of scorn and derision at hipsters, roadies, and fixed gear bicycles.
Personally, there's stuff that I'm into, and stuff that I'm not. I don't think that has to do with elitism, so long as I keep it to myself. Steve used the word "accept" quite a bit in the OP; the fact that I might have higher levels of interest in some bikes, rides, riders, builders, or topics and a general lack of interest in others does not mean that I don't accept those other bikes, builders, rides, riders, topics, etc. A convenient example: I like and respect musclebikes, but I don't currently have a lot of interest in them. I know there was a recent musclebike build off, and I didn't participate or even spend more than a few minutes looking at the buildoff. I'm sure I missed a lot of interesting and creative bikes (no sarcasm intended, real talk) but I don't think that means I have an elitist attitude towards musclebikes. It doesn't mean i don't accept them. I totally respect them, and i appreciate them, but I'm just not into them that much.
I think, ultimately, elitism is a negative term that is sometimes used by folks with hurt feelings. I think that elitism's kryptonite is respect, and RRB is generally a respectful forum. I think that CeeBee is right that "built, not bought" is arguably elitist, but I take that to be more about pride than elitism. I guess a lack of respect for a "bought" bike is implied, but until we see a lot of posts about "your bike sucks, poser!", I don't think that pride in "built" bikes is really elitist.
We see criticism on RRB, all the time, but it usually comes when ppl ask for feedback and suggestions, and it's usually delivered respectfully. If someone says "I'm not happy with how this bike looks; how can I improve it?", we tend to come together and give objective advice without excessive heckling. Respect is maintained, elitism is defeated, and we all keep rollin'....
But, seriously, the hatred of hipsters confuses me. They're nearly extinct in South Jersey. On the rare occasion that I see one, I get all jazzed up about it, like I'm seeing a Bald Eagle or a Cali Condor or some other endangered species. 2008, I think, was the year of "peak-hipsterism". They've been in steady decline since then, and I think we need to encourage them before they die out entirely....
Personally, there's stuff that I'm into, and stuff that I'm not. I don't think that has to do with elitism, so long as I keep it to myself. Steve used the word "accept" quite a bit in the OP; the fact that I might have higher levels of interest in some bikes, rides, riders, builders, or topics and a general lack of interest in others does not mean that I don't accept those other bikes, builders, rides, riders, topics, etc. A convenient example: I like and respect musclebikes, but I don't currently have a lot of interest in them. I know there was a recent musclebike build off, and I didn't participate or even spend more than a few minutes looking at the buildoff. I'm sure I missed a lot of interesting and creative bikes (no sarcasm intended, real talk) but I don't think that means I have an elitist attitude towards musclebikes. It doesn't mean i don't accept them. I totally respect them, and i appreciate them, but I'm just not into them that much.
I think, ultimately, elitism is a negative term that is sometimes used by folks with hurt feelings. I think that elitism's kryptonite is respect, and RRB is generally a respectful forum. I think that CeeBee is right that "built, not bought" is arguably elitist, but I take that to be more about pride than elitism. I guess a lack of respect for a "bought" bike is implied, but until we see a lot of posts about "your bike sucks, poser!", I don't think that pride in "built" bikes is really elitist.
We see criticism on RRB, all the time, but it usually comes when ppl ask for feedback and suggestions, and it's usually delivered respectfully. If someone says "I'm not happy with how this bike looks; how can I improve it?", we tend to come together and give objective advice without excessive heckling. Respect is maintained, elitism is defeated, and we all keep rollin'....
But, seriously, the hatred of hipsters confuses me. They're nearly extinct in South Jersey. On the rare occasion that I see one, I get all jazzed up about it, like I'm seeing a Bald Eagle or a Cali Condor or some other endangered species. 2008, I think, was the year of "peak-hipsterism". They've been in steady decline since then, and I think we need to encourage them before they die out entirely....
Three points. 1), I don't think this is pointless, exactly, it's just an exercise. Something to talk about on a forum designed to talk about things like this. 2) In the second sentence above, I AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY, AND KEEP IT IN MY MIND EVERY DAY. I do occasionally get the urge to look down on those that don't fabricate, but then I think two things, that they're better than me at something else (I suck hard at painting!), and that there are many builders that are way better than me at what I am best at. My fab skills place me in the middle of the pack, not near the top, so there is no room for me to look down at anyone, even noobs. 3) the insecure thing is mostly seen with new people to the site. Again, I just have to remember that not everyone works the same way I do, which is to have the vision of the bike almost complete from the start of the build, which means I rarely ask for advice. I try not to judge those that start their build by asking what they should build next.
I think I might have strayed from what my original point was going to be. What's going on? What am I doing here? Why am I still typing questions? This all makes me sound like an elitist snob, and I definitely shouldn't hit "post reply" on this mess of ramblings.
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