In the case of putting two frames together, good ol' cutting and hacking, I just align it by sight. Your eyes don't lie, and will see that something is off with even a tiny misalignment.
Frame Builders Advice!
- Thread starter The Renaissance Man
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Boy this forum has got me thinking and wishing. I have a bunch of old frames, perhaps I could come up with a Yooper frame build? I could cobble them together with wire and sheet metal screws. I wonder? Sounds like a project for a build off. The rules state the bike has to be ridable. I could ride a bike like this a few feet before it disintegrated at a sub atomic level. Nothing is permanent, not even magnets.
Ever consider using the metal screws to get it in one piece, buy a cheap MAAP torch and bronze or brass rod (I can afford one and I am pretty much US Poverty level), brazing the seams, then brazing around the screws for a permanent fix and grinding the heads down before painting the finished product? Those screws make a great 'tack weld' of sorts while you braze...
I want a welder Sooo bad-but MAAP torch and bronze rod will get a lot done.
Not that my first experiments aren't hideous due to my lack of skill so far, but I Will get better...
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I have a small propane type MAAP torch. I can't get anything hot enough to braze with it. I have an old Miller 220 volt AC welder but I am no good with it. I can do simple stuff like ugly tack a broken strap from my hand cart, but that has come off after a few years of abuse. I been using it with only one band, too lazy to fix it again.Ever consider using the metal screws to get it in one piece, buy a cheap MAAP torch and bronze or brass rod (I can afford one and I am pretty much US Poverty level), brazing the seams, then brazing around the screws for a permanent fix and grinding the heads down before painting the finished product? Those screws make a great 'tack weld' of sorts while you braze...
I want a welder Sooo bad-but MAAP torch and bronze rod will get a lot done.
I have an Oxy-acetylene torch set that I use for brazing copper on refrigeration lines and I know that it's possible to weld steel with, but I don't know what tip to use or what level to set my gasses. Sheet metal screws sound like an awesome idea though
This sounds like exactly like what I did for HeadBanger. Front frame was from a MTB that I mated to an OCC rear clip. Simple jig was made from unistrut, dropouts had threaded rod through them, and it allowed me to move it back and forth for the fitment of the suspension bracketry and where I wanted to weld in the pivot.
I also used this jig when I was tweaking the bent frame on Little Neutrino, my BONINE build...
Carl.
I think I use that same type of torch-propane will not get hot enough but MAAP gas will-barely. Super-thick dropouts of 1/4 and double-tube joints dissipate the heat too well-but ordinary thin walled tubing and regular droputs will yield to the gas if you have the patience. In temps of 50F or so it takes me four or five minutes and a steady hand to get that bright orange glow I need for the bronze to flow, and in 80F or more maybe three minutes-also, using the thinnest rods I can easily get (3/16 with flux coat) helps. It's pretty Zen really-steady heat for 3-5 minutes (Ommmm....ommmmm...
), gentle stroke of bronze across orange steel until it drops, another minute until it flows like water, move 1/4 over, 30 seconds until flow, move again...down torch, move to other side of bike, maybe 3 minutes until orange on a preheated tube (madme padma oooommmm...) annd done. If you missed a tiny spot somewhere just reheat and let the bronze reflow.Screw and nail heads though, they get hot fast, and then help heat the surrounding tube-I can make screws a permanent parts of a steel tube in two minutes flat if the temp outside is above freezing.
If you have a welder though-even a stick-welder-you have a powerful tool. I advise using your worst frame-a Patient Zero-and mutilate it with that AC welder until you have confidence in your skill. Four or five tack welds to hold, check final adjustments and GO! Your welds don't have to be pretty as long as they are penetrating, that's what files are for-and if you hole the tube a bit that's what filler rod is for...
I'm waiting for Harbour Freight to have a massive sale on an Oxy rig myself-stick would be cheaper but I can't use any kind of electric welder with my Travel Trailer wiring, alas...
Best of luck!
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This post got me thinking about building frames. Last week I went to Sault Ste. Marie for a week to watch a friends house while he went south for spring break. He has a fantastic shop except it is so full of junk you can't get around in it. It has zig zag bob and weave duck paths around the old partially disassembled and reassembled cars and trucks. I was given permission to use his stuff as payment for house/pet sitting. My truck bed was full of old bike frames so I cut them up with a hack saw and his ban saw. He has a Miller 110 volt wire feed argon gas welder. I used a pickup bed for a jig and started welding. I never welded before except for tacking with a stick welder, which I find hard. I followed the directions on the inside of the panel and found it surprisingly easy. Now I want one of these units as nothing less will do, except I can't afford it, but it is a real dream to use. My problem was there was nothing to use for a jig in his shop. No wood and no square tubing so I eyeballed it. I used his shop wood burning furnace to heat and bend sand filled tubes over an old tire rim. The top rear triangle tubes didn't bend uniformly so the finished frame is not straight. I cut the brace out of the bottom of the rear triangle, spread it so wide tires would fit and welded in a new brace. I wanted to simulate a Schwinn Model C, using a woman's Kresge's All Pro three speed, a Mongoose Mountain bike and a Huffy road bike. I built the model C look from memory as he has no internet so I winged the look. I learned that you need a jig to get it straight. Imagine that. I am going to build another one someday but not with so many modifications to the frame parts, keep it simpler. This one is trash, sure I could make a jig and probably straighten it but it was mostly for learning anyway. I was even able to fill in dents in the tubing from the kick stand mount. The tabs between the top tubes are an idea I had for mounting a tank. I round filed the front of the top tubes to fit snugly. I butt cut the rear of the top tubes because I found thick tubing that fit very snugly into the top tubes and filed these gussets to fit snuggly at the back where they met the seat post tube. I tapped in the gussets until I got a snug fit and welded the gusset to the top tube and then to the seat post tube. I filled the slight gap with weld. Sloppy I know, but I could think of no other way with the limited stuff I had on hand. I have seen where people have built jigs to drill angle cuts in round tubing using wood blocks and angles made from 2 x 4s but I will have to think about this idea for the next time. I think it's wall hanger "art". I believe anyone could do this with a good welder, jig, magnets, hack saw, grinder, tape measure, clamps and round files. It took two afternoons and an hour of a third day to make. I think a wooden jig might even work, but with a welder you could easily make one. I have old model T and 30s car frames that I could cut and use for a jig. It seems strong enough, I tried to cold straighten it with a jack and all thread in the dropouts and the welds held. I really torqued on it to. I could probably mess with it more but I will never be happy with the result so time would be better spent on another. Here is my failure frame.
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Will we be seeing some more scratch built frames for RRB-BO#10 come May 1st?
Luke.
Will we be seeing some more scratch built frames for RRB-BO#10 come May 1st?
Luke.
Schmaybe......
The Renaissance Man
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Not me, I'll be on the sideline watching.Will we be seeing some more scratch built frames for RRB-BO#10 come May 1st?
Luke.
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I was amazed, the welding is the easy part. Its fitting and bending and getting things straight. I need to take more time. This first effort happened without planning. I had the parts and the welder was there, it was too good and opportunity to let it pass by. I am really happy I did it but at the same time disappointed it didn't work out. I really think frame building is in the scope of all our members if they had the welder I used, it was easy. I am thinking about a cheap flux core welder but that probably would frustrate me after using the $2000.00 Miller.
Wait, May 1st? RRB-BO #10?Will we be seeing some more scratch built frames for RRB-BO#10 come May 1st?
Luke.
(searches Forum for Rules)
oooOOOOOOOOOOOoooooohhhh.
The weather's finally warmed up, I have MAAP gas and wire, some scrap wood and bolts for a 'Possibly Passable' jig...I take it this is another Open Category? Time to find some cheap parts...
Hmmmmm..... I like the idea of chopping out bb shells, seat and head tubes from discarded cheap bikes and practicing with them until I knew what I was doing. I would enjoy watching a frame builder do his thing in person...
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I would someday like to try furnace brazing, just for the heck of it. Put the frame together with sheet mental screws as discussed earlier in this thread or tack weld it, then put the frame in my 3 foot wide fire pit at camp. After the hardwood becomes coals it is charcoal and very hot and burns pure. When a part of it gets red hot, hang it on a bike stand and braze away, then get another area red hot and repeat. I would try wrapping the brass rod around the tubing next to the area to be brazed and let it seep in by gravity while in the fire. I'm not sure what kind of flux would work in a charcoal fire. I have access to a wire welder and have been using those, but there would be something satisfying about building it like a blacksmith, like they built Triumph motorcycle frames in the 50s, on a coke bed for the brazing heat. I bent tubing for a frame by putting it into a wood fire until it got red hot and this started me thinking and dreaming. They still braze bike frames in a furnace and this is an old method, seems like a rat rod idea to me. I'm not sure if I would have the guts to test beat it though. I have made lucky 7 seat posts by getting a steel rod red hot in my fire ring and bending it with vice grips. It takes only about 2 minutes to get it cherry red.
