Getting incorrect results from spoke length calculator

[mornview]

I use 3 spoke length calculators to determine my spoke length. You get different results with each one. Sometimes I use a 4th one. I have never used the one you used. If one calculation is way off I toss that out and kind of use judgement for an "average". I use digital calipers to measure the hub width and hole to hole diameter. If you are having custom spokes made (which I find cheaper than getting a set of already made ones if you go to the right guy) then have them threaded for 16 mm nipples. You could use 12, 14 or 16 mm spoke nipples to adjust the right length. This fudge factor has so far worked for me. Buy a set of each length nipple. I have rebuilt two Bendix manual 2 speeds and don't like either one. They are kind of grindy, have a tremendous amount of back pedal to engage the brake (which increased to even more back pedal in low gear), easily bent axles, poor braking and are hard to adjust. After the rebuild I put the wheel on a bike without the shift toggle and push in the shift pin with a small screw driver. If the bike shifts, then I know it can be adjusted to work, usually a hair trigger on the adjustment but the screwdriver test gives me confidence to keep trying to get it to shift right. I think this clunkiness is the reason they didn't make the manual 2 speed for very long. Every time you remove the rear wheel for a flat or whatever, you have to go through the adjustment dance. The non drive side cone adjustment can easily become too loose if you are not careful with the number of turns you put on the brake arm when reassembling, which if you take the wheel off and adjust the cones with the brake arm will make you have to readjust the shift setting. I bend my axle Klunking and straighten it by tapping on the nut. I have now given up straightening it and just ride it, hopefully it won't ovalize any parts soon? Most of these I have seen have bent axles. Be careful screwing the shift pin into the small fitting when rebuilding to a void stripping the extremely fine threads. One of my friends did this on his Bendix manual rebuild. I still enjoy Klunking with this but you really have to pay attention to the pedal location and anticipate braking as you can bottom out your brake stroke and still not engage the brake. With a bigger chain wheel this is not quite as bad, but them you can't single track with one.

I'm using ISO 590 rims (the 26 x 1 3/8 rims used on old lightweight/British cruisers), so unfortunately I won't be able to use your measurements right now, but I might be lacing another one of these hubs up to some ISO 559's soon depending on how this one turns out. I'm about to hook up the cable on my wife's bike this afternoon and test it out.

Why would 4x wheels be less strong than 3x? Just curious.

We'll see how my experience with the hubs goes; I have a pair of them, one that I overhauled myself and one that I got from RRB member Crassley who overhauled it himself before sending it to me. Crassley's is the one that I currently have laced up and will be mounting soon. Just turning it by hand this thing seems to be running smooth as butter. The one I overauled does not seem to running quite as smoothly, but it's probably just my adjustment as we both used white lithium grease for the rebuild and the innards of my hub were all in great condition.

Interesting information on the hub's shortcomings, though. I was initially drawn to this hub due to it's practicality as a touring hub. Really, all I need to get around most of the country roads in this area of the midwest is a second, lower gear, which this hub will do just fine for (by the way, do you have any idea what the gear ratio in this hub is? I can't find any information on it online; I'm assuming it's just the same as the Bendix Kickback underdrive). But there are no fragile parts or springs or anything in these hubs; I would feel pretty secure venturing out into the boonies with this hub. However, I've never felt that Bendix's had very strong brake, and the fact that the brake in this hub is ran through the drive train makes it even worse. So I guess all I can do is try it out.

 

[us56456712]

I'm using ISO 590 rims (the 26 x 1 3/8 rims used on old lightweight/British cruisers), so unfortunately I won't be able to use your measurements right now, but I might be lacing another one of these hubs up to some ISO 559's soon depending on how this one turns out. I'm about to hook up the cable on my wife's bike this afternoon and test it out.

Why would 4x wheels be less strong than 3x? Just curious.

We'll see how my experience with the hubs goes; I have a pair of them, one that I overhauled myself and one that I got from RRB member Crassley who overhauled it himself before sending it to me. Crassley's is the one that I currently have laced up and will be mounting soon. Just turning it by hand this thing seems to be running smooth as butter. The one I overauled does not seem to running quite as smoothly, but it's probably just my adjustment as we both used white lithium grease for the rebuild and the innards of my hub were all in great condition.

Interesting information on the hub's shortcomings, though. I was initially drawn to this hub due to it's practicality as a touring hub. Really, all I need to get around most of the country roads in this area of the midwest is a second, lower gear, which this hub will do just fine for (by the way, do you have any idea what the gear ratio in this hub is? I can't find any information on it online; I'm assuming it's just the same as the Bendix Kickback underdrive). But there are no fragile parts or springs or anything in these hubs; I would feel pretty secure venturing out into the boonies with this hub. However, I've never felt that Bendix's had very strong brake, and the fact that the brake in this hub is ran through the drive train makes it even worse. So I guess all I can do is try it out.

I like it. I don't know about the ratio but low is low so it is a well designed 2 speed. From looking at the parts list on the net for these hubs they came with either 18 or 19 tooth cogs. I have each but use the 19 for off road. Its strange, one of my rebuilds is smoother than the other, one is pretty grindy but works well. It will be fantastic for your application, especially if you have a front brake. You will really like it. Most people feel 4 cross is a little weaker because of the more acute angle of the spokes creating more stress, but I can't say for sure. I run 4 cross with short spokes and long nipples on single track and so far it is OK. I ride pretty rough for an old geezer, last summer I broke several chains, broke the end off a Wellgo alloy pedal, pulverized the guts out of a new freehub and cracked a frame at the rear swing arm. I also cracked a homemade frame, which I felt better about breaking when I broke a real one. Despite this the Bendix wheel is still good. The Shimano Nexus 3 speed coaster hub is so superior, it is easy to adjust and has a very robust brake, but it is not cool. It's interesting about spoke length on these old bikes. I have rebuilt several old bikes for friends. The first time I disassembled a rear wheel I didn't take notice of the cross pattern and started relacing it with 3 cross, only to have to start over using 4 cross. The front was 3 cross. For my own bikes I usually replace the wheel so I was not aware of this. My buddies wanted to keep the bikes original. I noticed that none of the old lacing had the final cross tucked under, like modern lacing. I tuck when I rebuild. I started noting that the front wheels on these old bikes had 3 cross lacing with a small flange hub. I now look for old Huffy type mountain bikes with 26 inch wheels from the 80s-90s with 91mm front hubs and small hub flange. It's hard to find these without completely trashed spokes, but when I do, I save the spokes because you can use them to make a Bendix or New Departure wheel using 4 cross. Here is 4 cross on a New Departure hub I recently rebuilt using old Huffy spokes form a front 3 cross wheel and the original 16mm brass nipples. Save the nipples from disassembly, their length might be important. The last picture is a Bendix Red Band laced 4 cross to on old Huffy front rim using the original spokes form a 91mm small flange hub. I don't know if the method works all the time, but mostly it seems to. This red bike is made entirely from salvaged junk, including the tires.

 

[mornview]

You're a far better person than I am; I try to reuse as much of a bike as I can, but when it comes to something like spokes I tend to buy them new. Then again, most of the hubs I use I've obtained off of Ebay or here on RRB, and I seem to always get them hub-only, so I don't really have a lot of old spokes to work with anyways. And I don't seem to come into possession of nearly as many old department store bikes as you do .

Thanks for the heads up on the cog teeth issue. My first hub had 18 teeth and I guess I just assumed all of them did. But I see the one I built up for my wife's bike is 19 teeth. Thankfully she had enough room in her dropouts that I was able to get the wheel on there without having to modify the chain at all. I don't know why, but adding/subtracting links is one of my least favorite bike maintenance tasks .

In any event, I have the wheel mounted and everything appears to be adjusted correctly, at least when I'm testing it out in the stand. I'm about to go take it for it's first ride. It shifts really nice; I'm excited to see how it fares.

One question for you - I know from doing some digging through the RRB archives that you've had some issues with your Bendix Manual hubs. I've noticed that after this wheel is stopped with forceful braking, it takes a bit of extra effort to get it back in drive again. I'm wondering if that is typical for this hub. I'm also wondering if it might just be because the hub was overhauled with white lithium grease, which is obviously heavier than the oil that was originally used. Maybe the excess grease just needs to be worked out. Or, could it be the brake shoe keys? I've never used a hub with brake shoe keys before; I'm not really sure how they effect performance.

 

[us56456712]

My issues were from the hair trigger adjustment, which I was able to overcome by using the screwdriver shift to give me confidence to keep trying. The first rebuild was grindy and harder to adjust. The pegs that hold the small gears might have been a little warn, but I couldn't tell from visual inspection. Everything else was very good. I have had no problems getting them back in drive after forceful braking. Last summer I went over "Doctors" a very rough expert trail over Marquette Mountain. It is very steep going down and rough with exposed bedrock so the Bendix 2 speed manual got so hot it was smoking. I could only tap it or I would burn my fingers. It still works the same with no repacking. I will not use this hub for this trail again, but it speaks volumes about the durability. I bailed out after about 3/4 of the trail for fear I would cook my hub. I used regular automotive grease for my rebuilds, which is thicker than the lithium grease I have used in the past. White lithium has been superseded by more advanced formulations and is now primarily used because of its high contrast value so you can see that you got every part covered. I used up mine awhile back and never had any problems with it, but I only used it for bottom brackets and headsets. I bought a tube of white lithium bicycle grease at the ReStore as they had all the stuff from an old out of business bicycle shop. I got a Bendix blue band kick back for $2 there also and a bunch of other stuff. White lithium grease is a good general high temp grease and has zinc to make it white and lithium soap as a cleaning surfactant, so it should work in old multi speed hubs?