GYES Bicycle seat GS-13-1
- Thread starter OldSkool
- Start date
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Really.. here cool thought...
old seat parts, some rivets
a piece of veggie tanned saddle skirt..
leather stamps and tools,
I could imagine that anyone can make their own saddle to own taste..
old seat parts, some rivets
a piece of veggie tanned saddle skirt..
leather stamps and tools,
I could imagine that anyone can make their own saddle to own taste..
All right I'll say it..." The King has NO clothes..!....Brooks are OVER rated....there I said it... talk among yourselves....
Ok, I'll respond to it:
Brooks saddles are expensive, and they're not perfect. Over-rated? That, i'm not so sure about. If they were over-rated, they wouldn't been so frequently aped or flagrantly knocked off.
-The Gyes/Cardiff/V-O knock-offs? (These are all manufactured by the same firm.) When these jokers first showed up at interbike, they had a few exact Brooks replicas, and the Brooks Catalog, and they were telling interested parties to choose whatever they wanted from Brooks, and they'd make it cheaper. All these years later, and the products they are offering superficially look like brooks, but they're made from some styrofoam-type leather. Feels different to the hand, and on the bike. The springs are slushy, and the hardware is comparatively soft. No break-in period for these, but they won't last as long, either. Those who know anything know the difference. Not trying to be a snob; the Gyes saddles work fine, look OK, and I'd rock one. But you do get what you pay for, no? Made in Korea. South Korean minimum wage: $4.57/hour.
-Persons? Permaco (Persons/Majestic) used to be the US distributor for Brooks. At some point after Selle Royal bought Brooks, Permaco lost the US distributorship, and contracted a firm/firms in India to make some knock-offs. Early photos on the Permaco site depicted Brooks saddles, but had the Persons name and price under the photo. The few of these I've seen in person were at least made from normal/"real" leather, like a Brooks. Quality of the dye, hardware, and finish in general were not up to Brooks standards, but were pretty good. Made in India. Indian minimum wage: $0.28/hour.
-Selle Anatomica? I bought one of these on the $100 holiday blowout sale. More of a road racing sadle; all had cutouts until the NSX series appeared. These tend to follow more "sporting" lines. This is a new firm, and so far, many ppl have reported a relatively short life from these, which isn't surprising given the priority of light-weight over durability. I've only ridden/handled my own saddle; I haven't seen any others firsthand. It seems well-made, but the leather ain't too hott. Dry and crackley. They say not to use proofide on'm, but i did anyway b/c it looked like it might crack. For $90, Selle Anatomica will recover your frame in new leather. Made in the USA. American minimum wage: $7.25/hour
-Brooks? Even after the buy-out by the Italians, all Brooks leather saddles are made in England. (The new rubber/canvas Cambium series is made in Italy.) Brooks aren't as bombproof as they used to be, but this seems to be b/c cattle and, consequently, leather ain't what they used to be, either. The Brooks "Select" line uses organic Scandinavian cowhide, which is much thicker, and promises to be as long-wearing as Brooks of yesteryear. I haven't bought a Select (yet) to confirm this, but the ones I've seen at shows and shops seem to live up to the promise. Thick, high-quality leather on those. Made in the UK. Brit minimum wage: $9.83/hour.
It seems clear to me that Brooks cost more b/c they use quality materials and pay workers a living wage to craft the saddles. Yes, the competition is cheaper (aside from Selle Anatomica), but given that the competition is paying the workers far less to craft saddles of noticeably inferior materials, to demonstrably less-stringent QC standards, I think a fair price for a Gyes would be about $35, and maybe $25 for a Persons, considering they'd need to spend about 40 hours per saddle for the labor costs to even approach $10 in labor costs.
Cliches are often-repeated b/c they often contain some truth. "You get what you pay for", indeed.
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Absolutely, with the right skills, materials, and tools.....
Well said...Ok, I'll respond to it:
Brooks saddles are expensive, and they're not perfect. Over-rated? That, i'm not so sure about. If they were over-rated, they wouldn't been so frequently aped or flagrantly knocked off.
-The Gyes/Cardiff/V-O knock-offs? (These are all manufactured by the same firm.) When these jokers first showed up at interbike, they had a few exact Brooks replicas, and the Brooks Catalog, and they were telling interested parties to choose whatever they wanted from Brooks, and they'd make it cheaper. All these years later, and the products they are offering superficially look like brooks, but they're made from some styrofoam-type leather. Feels different to the hand, and on the bike. The springs are slushy, and the hardware is comparatively soft. No break-in period for these, but they won't last as long, either. Those who know anything know the difference. Not trying to be a snob; the Gyes saddles work fine, look OK, and I'd rock one. But you do get what you pay for, no? Made in Korea. South Korean minimum wage: $4.57/hour.
-Persons? Permaco (Persons/Majestic) used to be the US distributor for Brooks. At some point after Selle Royal bought Brooks, Permaco lost the US distributorship, and contracted a firm/firms in India to make some knock-offs. Early photos on the Permaco site depicted Brooks saddles, but had the Persons name and price under the photo. The few of these I've seen in person were at least made from normal/"real" leather, like a Brooks. Quality of the dye, hardware, and finish in general were not up to Brooks standards, but were pretty good. Made in India. Indian minimum wage: $0.28/hour.
-Selle Anatomica? I bought one of these on the $100 holiday blowout sale. More sporting; all had cutouts until the NSX series appeared. These tend to follow more "sporting" lines. This is a new firm, and so far, many ppl have reported a relatively short life from these, which isn't surprising given the priority of light-weight over durability. I've only ridden/handled my own; it seems well-made, but the leather ain't too hott. Dry and crackley. They say not to use proofide on'm, but i did anyway b/c it looked like it might crack. Made in the USA. American minimum wage: $7.25/hour
-Brooks? Even after the buy-out by the Italians, all Brooks leather saddles are made in England. (The new rubber/canvas Cambium series is made in Italy.) Brooks aren't as bombproof as they used to be, but this seems to be b/c cattle and, consequently, leather ain't what they used to be, either. The Brooks "Select" line uses organic Scandinavian cowhide, which is much thicker, and promises to be as long-wearing as Brooks of yesteryear. I haven't bought a Select (yet) to confirm this, but the ones I've seen at shows and shops seem to live up to the promise. Thick, high-quality leather on those. Made in the UK. Brit minimum wage: $9.83/hour.
It seems clear to me that Brooks cost more b/c they use quality materials and pay workers a living wage to craft the saddles. Yes, the competition is cheaper (aside from Selle Anatomica), but given that the competition is paying the workers far less to craft saddles of noticeably inferior materials, to demonstrably less-stringent QC standards, I think a fair price for a Gyes would be about $35, and maybe $25 for a Persons, considering they'd need to spend about 40 hours per saddle for the labor costs to even approach $10 in labor costs.
Cliches are often-repeated b/c they often contain some truth. "You get what you pay for", indeed.
That makes sense. Buy yours from wallbike.com. Not only can they help you pick pout the best saddle for your purposes, but they also have this going for them:
http://www.wallbike.com/warranty-and-other-information
They don't have the best prices, but they're definitely competitive, and they absolutely have the best guarantee.
As for choosing a Brooks, based on previous conversations, i think you might be wise to avoid the sprung models. Other than that, follow the basic guideline that, if your saddle is about even with your bars, you want a medium width. Higher bars, go with a wider saddle, and lower bars, go with a narrower one. It's also helpful to identify which of your current saddles fit you well, in terms of shape and size, and measure it/them. The dimensions of the Brooks saddles are easily found on the Brooks website, the wallbike.com site, and most any other thorough online dealers. You can probably find one that is close in size/shape to your current favorite saddle.
