Harley E bike

[sandman]

Pre orders being taken for the Harley E Bike ?
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/products/bikes/future-vehicles/e-bicycles.html

 

[Verrt]

"THE FREEDOM OF A BICYCLE. THE EFFORTLESS JOY OF ELECTRIC POWER."
$4,499
Nope.
I'm lousy with effortless joy right now. Thanks.

"a pedal-assist eBicycle designed for trend-setting adults seeking a stylish and flexible way to move around their fast-paced urban environments."
Gotta love marketing copy that really lets you know it's marketing copy.

I'll take a Livewire if you're handing them out.

Not exactly a looker though.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Zero interest in either, but especially not the bicycle shaped moped

 

[Verrt]

Zero interest in either, but especially not the bicycle shaped moped

Man, I took my friend's Zero for a spin. So weird, and so good. I loved it.

I just don't understand why electric motorbikes have to be so lamb ugly!

I probably won't get another bike until I move back to a place with year round riding weather, and my plan has always been to get something late model from the Triumph Bonneville platform, Scrambler or the new Bobber.

But seriously, if there's a good looking electric by then, it will have a legitimately strong chance of displacing what has always been my unobtained dream bike.

 

[Grant]

Pre orders being taken for the Harley E Bike ?
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/products/bikes/future-vehicles/e-bicycles.html

Exact opposite of what I expected to see.

 

[RustyGold]

HD is in a tough place...but, every decision they make just seems to make it worse.

 

[Dominicus]

Like with hybrid cars e stuff looks futuristic plastic. The series 1 looked pretty gangly too. But the point is to stand out and gain visibility in a cookie cutter e bike market where every component currently looks sourced from the same 5 places. Their stuff only fits their bike. I don’t fit their now globally minded market but I get it and hope it works.
I’m old school diy. Give me an e bike battery tank that fits and looks clean on 85% of the cantilever bikes out there and a crank hub that fits most and I’d be set. Think about that on a stingray frame and for lowriders...build something you could actually ride board track.

 

[Duchess]

No thanks. I'm trying to refrain from building a much better e bike for a quarter of that price until this year's build off (thanks to batteryhookup for the super cheap lifepo cells, though I got a little carried away with size, so it won't fit in a top tube tank unless I want to make it a weak motorcycle). I've learned a lot so far building the electric kayak and I have to say that I think I like electric more than gasoline engines and I like the quiet as, IMO, few engines actually sound good and they are rare and expensive (I thought this fit well in a thread about Harley, even if it's not one of their flatulent motorcycles). I would love to make the speedboat I'm building electric, but the batteries alone would cost more than double the entire boat with a 60hp 4-stroke outboard will.

When solid state batteries get here, electric stuff will get even better and cheaper.

 

[bunnyman666]

Not my cup of tea.

 

[Couch tater]

Loud commutators save lives

 

[RustyGold]

When solid state batteries get here, electric stuff will get even better and cheaper.

I haven't looked into this in quite awhile, is there anything on the horizon in regards to batteries that are cheaper, lighter, and less toxic to the environment? Any of those three things would be of interest, any combo of two would be surprising...the trifecta, well, that would be nearly miraculous .

 

[Verrt]

I haven't looked into this in quite awhile, is there anything on the horizon in regards to batteries that are cheaper, lighter, and less toxic to the environment? Any of those three things would be of interest, any combo of two would be surprising...the trifecta, well, that would be nearly miraculous .

I made a go-kart powered by my own sense of self satisfaction

 

[Duchess]

I haven't looked into this in quite awhile, is there anything on the horizon in regards to batteries that are cheaper, lighter, and less toxic to the environment? Any of those three things would be of interest, any combo of two would be surprising...the trifecta, well, that would be nearly miraculous .

Toyota and some other reputable company I forget the name of are claiming they're about a year or so away. I'd still like some salt around the rim of that drink, but I think it's on the near horizon. More importantly for the environment (until an even better chemistry can be found and made to work) is a method of extracting lithium from geothermal sites where it is pre-dissolved in water: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201124-how-geothermal-lithium-could-revolutionise-green-energy

 

[RustyGold]

Thanks! Looks like it may satisfy lighter, but not cheaper or less toxic.

 

[Dominicus]

Years back I was researching doing electric conversions on old Volvos and at the time they had just developed flexible batteries that can be cut & punctured without catching fire but to my knowledge they still have not been able to scale up production. Tech at the time meant any conversion meant significant additional weight in batteries. The mining is a big issue when you consider just building 1 regular car is already 14-16 tons of co2. I ended up going with renewable diesel made from food waste which is supposed to be 80% less greenhouse gas from production through consumption. Not replacing a 38 year old car each year works out to saving about 532 tons of carbon over that span. If e bikes replaced cars for short trips it does make a significant difference.

 

[Duchess]

Cheaper because there is less case necessary to separate the components and BMS isn't as critical since the problem of thermal runaway is dramatically reduced. This also means higher charge and discharge rates, so less battery might be needed for a required peak wattage (though not wH). Less toxic, because the electrodes don't need the cobalt and nickel (at least from what I've read, but they aren't to market yet, so that might change) and the green lithium extraction doesn't use the energy to extract nor damage the land like mining. Cheaper and less toxic because the life span should be greater, requiring less frequent replacement (again, not in production, so this is theoretical, but with solid state, there shouldn't be the dendrite build up on electrodes of present batteries that reduce their lifespan). That's not getting into eliminating the damage costs and pollution when a thermal runaway event from dendrite build up causes them to really run away.

If you're following electric car development, you might notice that Tesla seems to get more range out of a given battery capacity over competitors (and increases it over time for older vehicles through OTA updates). For safety and longevity's sake, the full capability of a battery pack is pulled back a bit. The better the battery management at monitoring and adjusting charge and discharge to the individual cells, the more of that capacity can be used and the faster the pack can be charged with little to no hit on longevity and safety. The one thing Tesla appears to do very well (as opposed to fit and finish!) is battery management. With solid state batteries not needing such critical management, it makes it easier for new players to enter the market at a competitive stage and brings charge times down to more market-appealing numbers. With faster charge time and higher discharge rate, the battery pack can be downsized for a given application, further reducing weight and cost. It's not going to save the world, but it's a big jump ahead for electric transportation if it finally gets to market somewhere near meeting its promises.

 

[RustyGold]

I have no intent, or interest, in starting a carbon discussion...that topic is full of misinformation and politics.

I wasn't really referring to the extraction process regarding battery toxicity, just the end of life cycle for the batteries (the extraction process is also valid, just not what I was thinking of...and is a not a factor in a comparison as it appears that the solid state batteries also use lithium). As in, somehow lithium was declared a non-hazardous waste and is there for, for the most part, disposed of in land fills.

 

[RustyGold]

Cheaper because there is less case necessary to separate the components and BMS isn't as critical since the problem of thermal runaway is dramatically reduced.

From the few articles I've just read, the major restriction to bringing to market is cost of manufacturing...the reason why they haven't been introduced in cell phones and other electronic devices.

Cheaper and less toxic because the life span should be greater, requiring less frequent replacement...it's a big jump ahead for electric transportation if it finally gets to market somewhere near meeting its promises.

I didn't see anywhere that states an equivalent battery will use more or less lithium, but, if we look at your last statement...it doesn't matter. If switching to SSBs increases market share, then regardless of longevity or how much is used per battery...a greater volume still ends up in the land fills.

I don't follow alternative energy vehicles much at all anymore, as the Prius won the propaganda war and derailed most of the development on anything not battery powered electric. With the state of battery technology at that time, as well as now, I find that to have been the worst path to follow...and possibly a dead end.

 

[Verrt]

@RustyGold you seem to be neutral or moderately anti lithium battery

and anti current alternative energy vehicles

What are you pro?

 

[hamqqea]

@RustyGold you seem to be neutral or moderately anti lithium battery

and anti current alternative energy vehicles

What are you pro?

It was mentioned on electrek.co, the Serial 1 is a dedicated startup. Specs, design, components and construction are impressive.