Had to laugh reading the post about other forums and how those with the mind set of this forum are more layed back. My brother and I went to a local bike show from a notice I seen on the FB part of this site and were very surprised how cool everybody was. I have done many things in my 48 years of life , bmx/roadbikes/mtb , sandrails, martial arts, openwater and cave diver plus somethings I tried for a short time....in all the clicks and fighting destroy the joy of the activity.....it felt nice to be around such friendy people...very glad I join this site and now sorry I join the one you speak of a few days back. I came to these two forums due to my new build and the need to learn about the frame....thanks for the information I have received so far.