is there a site with ser#'s to determine year of manufacture for hawthornes etc, sorta like the 1 for schwinns at bunch o bikes? also when did they stop using the adjusters on the rear axel?
thanx
thanx
hawthorne i.d
- Thread starter rustycrank
- Start date
Help Support Rat Rod Bikes Bicycle Forum:
Phil, rms37, is compiling serial # info of Cleveland Welding built bikes, which includes some Hawthornes. The rest were generally made by Snyder(who also built Rollfasts). They continued using the rear facing dropouts into the early 50s. The best way to narrow down the year is the headbadge style. They changed every few years, usually featuring a big H, and Montgomery Wards or just wards. I have the Elgin/JC Higgins/Hawthorne book which has original catalog pages. If you post a pic of the badge, and the whole bike, I could tell around what year, and if it's a CWC or Snyder bike. ~Adam
thanx adam i'll get a pic of the badge, the bike itself is the ratbike i built for the buildoff
Rustinkerer said:
OK, I looked at the pics, it's a CWC frame, with the 1936-42 headbadge! ~Adam
Thanx Adam-So pre-war then? the badge is black background,large silver "H",with Wards on top, Hawthorne on bottom, that sound about right?
Rustinkerer said:
I believe so. The fact that your frame has "ears" for a drop stand makes me think prewar. The latest it could be is 46-7, the badges are hard to make out on the catalog pages, looks like the earlier badge, but hard to tell. In 48 they went to an aluminum badge with "Hawthorne" over the "Flying H". ~Adam
Your bike, Rat Salad, has a Cleveland Welding built frame. At the time it was produced Cleveland Welding and the Snyder Manufacturing Company were the largest suppliers of bicycles to Montgomery Ward. The frame is a late variant of the CWC “Bent Tank” frame, named for the shape of the tank that fits the frame. The curved down tube was introduced in late 1940, earlier versions of the frame have a straight down tube. Both the straight and curved down tube versions were produced into early 1942 and did not return to production after the war.
CWC used rear facing dropouts with adjuster screws exclusively through 1953 and into 1954, The rule of thumb for CWC frames is that frames with dropout tangs are pre-war and frames without are post-war. This holds true for all the common models. The exception to this is a few rare models were produced before the war without the tangs.
As noted there is currently no place on the internet to go for a complete list of production dates referenced to serial numbers for either CWC or Snyder bicycles or the models they produced for Montgomery Ward. CWC used a system of serial numbers that repeat over time and the Snyder system is even more confusing. The best way to date bikes from either of these manufacturers is to first narrow the possible year down by frame construction and features and then compare the serial number with other frames from the same manufacturer and period.
CWC used rear facing dropouts with adjuster screws exclusively through 1953 and into 1954, The rule of thumb for CWC frames is that frames with dropout tangs are pre-war and frames without are post-war. This holds true for all the common models. The exception to this is a few rare models were produced before the war without the tangs.
As noted there is currently no place on the internet to go for a complete list of production dates referenced to serial numbers for either CWC or Snyder bicycles or the models they produced for Montgomery Ward. CWC used a system of serial numbers that repeat over time and the Snyder system is even more confusing. The best way to date bikes from either of these manufacturers is to first narrow the possible year down by frame construction and features and then compare the serial number with other frames from the same manufacturer and period.
thanx rms37 thats good to know!!! i have a couple more out back with that tang on the rear, now when you say bent down tube your talkin about the lower tank tube or the actual down tube that goes to the cranks?
rms37 said:
Yes, the down tube (curved or straight) I'm referring to is the one from the steering head to the crank hanger. The lower top tube has the distinctive kink that matches the under-belly of the tank that fits your frame. CWC also produced a very similar frame with a curved lower top tube that matches a tank known as the 3-Gill.
He's THE MAN on CWC stuff! ~Adam
heres a question i've asked many times and never got an answer... what year did wards stop selling bikes under the hawthorne name? i got a girls cruiser with twin top/down tubes (hp snyder) 42t chainring with flat style guard and white headbadge. i know its a vague description, but pm me if you can help. thanks.
I don't know. I'd guess into the early 70s. ~Adam
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
SOLD Elvis, 65 Schwinn Heavy Duti KING SIZED - no wheels or fenders $300- Latest: One-eyed Sailor
-
-
-
-
