Better pics.. The rear rim says Morrow on the coaster arm. I couldn't find a date on it. The front hub says New Departure W.
Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight. (better pics)
- Thread starter FaceOFFbikes
- Start date
Help Support Rat Rod Bikes Bicycle Forum:
Re: Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight.
Frame looks like CWC to me. Maybe a hawthorne or something. But heck, for a dollar call it whatever you want.
Frame looks like CWC to me. Maybe a hawthorne or something. But heck, for a dollar call it whatever you want.
Re: Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight.
Whats CWC? I am trying to get a brand so I can date it.. It has the rear facing dropouts with the screw thingys..necessaryevil said:
Re: Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight.
CWC = Cleveland Welding Company
They made frames for Roadmaster, Hiawatha, Hawthorne, etc.
Yours look identical to the one im trying to identify as well
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11777
CWC = Cleveland Welding Company
They made frames for Roadmaster, Hiawatha, Hawthorne, etc.
Yours look identical to the one im trying to identify as well
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11777
Re: Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight.
Thats crazy! we have the same bike, and the schwinn fork thingy is common huh? lol
ratina said:
Thats crazy! we have the same bike, and the schwinn fork thingy is common huh? lol
Re: Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight.
Its the original fork it just looks like a Schwinn fork I guess lol. Hopefully someone more knowledgable will chime in and narrow it down more.
FaceOFFbikes said:
Its the original fork it just looks like a Schwinn fork I guess lol. Hopefully someone more knowledgable will chime in and narrow it down more.
Re: Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight.
Does the headtube show any sign of what shape the headbadge was? A pic would be great. Just a guess but I'd say late prewar or early postwar.
Does the headtube show any sign of what shape the headbadge was? A pic would be great. Just a guess but I'd say late prewar or early postwar.
Re: Help I.D. this old skiptooth heavyweight.
Hi,
The bike was made by The Cleveland Welding Company. Their “house-brand” was Roadmaster but they produced bicycles for several second tier distributors such as Montgomery Ward (Hawthorne) and sold bikes with a variety of non vendor specific badges (Pilot, Fleetwing, etc.)
Several details that help separate pre and postwar production are not shown in the photographs but it is most likely a very early postwar bike. Full forged forks were used by several manufacturers and while subtly different, from a distance, are not a good clue to the manufacturer.
If the rear hub is a Morrow the date code on it may help pin down the year.
Phil
Hi,
The bike was made by The Cleveland Welding Company. Their “house-brand” was Roadmaster but they produced bicycles for several second tier distributors such as Montgomery Ward (Hawthorne) and sold bikes with a variety of non vendor specific badges (Pilot, Fleetwing, etc.)
Several details that help separate pre and postwar production are not shown in the photographs but it is most likely a very early postwar bike. Full forged forks were used by several manufacturers and while subtly different, from a distance, are not a good clue to the manufacturer.
If the rear hub is a Morrow the date code on it may help pin down the year.
Phil
Help! lol
Here are some more pictures of my CWC Pilot. Hope they help.
I dont know if this helps anything but heres my Skiptooth Hawthorne Montgomery Ward Rat which I call the Milkbike for running errands[img]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/holyrollin72/dadsbday078.jpg[/img]
I have a bad habit of over-answering questions so I’ll try to answer the questions while reining myself in. All of the bikes pictured were manufactured by The Cleveland Welding Company (CWC).
Boardtrack fan’s cream and red Pilot is a prewar bike, the other bikes are all postwar.
FaceOFFbike’s blue postwar bike has a standard 19” frame as does the blue Fleet Wing (see ratina’s post).
Both the Pilot and ratina’s Seiberling have 17” frames.
Most 26” wheeled CWC bicycles used the standard 19” frame (the nominal seat tube measurement). As noted in the 1939 CWC catalog, some models of 26” wheeled bikes were available with a smaller 17” frame. Along with having a shorter seat tube the frame was also slightly more compact in length. This difference is apparent if you compare the shape of the curved down tubes on the blue bike with the Seiberling.
The 17” frames split the difference between the full size 26” models and the 24” wheeled models which also used a frame with a 17” seat tube.
Gold Street Custom’s Milkbike looks to be a 17”x 24” frame and again the shape and relationship of the down tubes is different.
Tanks are easy to come by for the 19”x 26” frame, and hard to find for the 24” models.
I’m not sure if the prewar girl’s tank will fit the Pilot and I don’t believe a tank was ever produced to fit the postwar 17”x 26” frame.
As I noted in my earlier post, the Pilot is definitely prewar and was likely produced in 1939.
Postwar CWC models are harder to date for several reasons. The design of the dropouts, seat clamp and fender bridges were all changed in the early postwar years but older variants may have remained in production alongside the revised models.
Ratina’s bike has all of the earliest pattern features so I would guess-date it as 1946-1947.
FaceOFFbike’s frame has the early dropouts with the chain guard mounting hole which is the next style. (Approx. 1948-1950 ?)
Both the Fleet Wing and the Milkbike have the third pattern dropouts and the later seat clamp with the annular ring (Approx. 1950-1953 ?)
I hope this information helps,
Phil
Boardtrack fan’s cream and red Pilot is a prewar bike, the other bikes are all postwar.
FaceOFFbike’s blue postwar bike has a standard 19” frame as does the blue Fleet Wing (see ratina’s post).
Both the Pilot and ratina’s Seiberling have 17” frames.
Most 26” wheeled CWC bicycles used the standard 19” frame (the nominal seat tube measurement). As noted in the 1939 CWC catalog, some models of 26” wheeled bikes were available with a smaller 17” frame. Along with having a shorter seat tube the frame was also slightly more compact in length. This difference is apparent if you compare the shape of the curved down tubes on the blue bike with the Seiberling.
The 17” frames split the difference between the full size 26” models and the 24” wheeled models which also used a frame with a 17” seat tube.
Gold Street Custom’s Milkbike looks to be a 17”x 24” frame and again the shape and relationship of the down tubes is different.
Tanks are easy to come by for the 19”x 26” frame, and hard to find for the 24” models.
I’m not sure if the prewar girl’s tank will fit the Pilot and I don’t believe a tank was ever produced to fit the postwar 17”x 26” frame.
As I noted in my earlier post, the Pilot is definitely prewar and was likely produced in 1939.
Postwar CWC models are harder to date for several reasons. The design of the dropouts, seat clamp and fender bridges were all changed in the early postwar years but older variants may have remained in production alongside the revised models.
Ratina’s bike has all of the earliest pattern features so I would guess-date it as 1946-1947.
FaceOFFbike’s frame has the early dropouts with the chain guard mounting hole which is the next style. (Approx. 1948-1950 ?)
Both the Fleet Wing and the Milkbike have the third pattern dropouts and the later seat clamp with the annular ring (Approx. 1950-1953 ?)
I hope this information helps,
Phil
Phil, your brain is amazing.. Thanks lol
Ya know, I have a Roadmaster with that same fork dart, like a Schwinn! I figured it was just a replacement, but maybe they just had similar decals. I know those forks are hard to tell apart! ~Adam
+1 to rms37 (phil). I was thinkking something similar along the lines of a cwc made roadmaster or hawthorn, with the rear "triangle" lookin a lot like both bikes, but he sums it up so perfectly.
