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I am new here and am in need of some guidance. Today I purchased a Ward Hawthorne bicycle which I believe is a 1940 model. I am not sure how to decipher the serial number though to really know what it is. The serial number reads F12400G i believe. It has all of the prewar indicators such as the skip tooth chain and L shaped seat post and springer seat. Can anyone help with year determination and possible value?

Thanks
Alex
WardsHawthorne.jpg
 
Great find!

I’m always bumming people out, telling them their bikes are newer than they believe them to be. In this case you have a bike that is older than you think it is!

It is an H.P. Snyder built frame and very likely from 1937. This straight-bar version of the fastback-sport (Zep) frame was made from 1936 (1936 has a different seat binder) until about 1940 but the several changes were made over the production run and the straight truss rods and lack of integral dropstand ears marks this one as pre 1938.

I’m adding the serial number to my data base but Snyder serial numbers for those years are all over the place (letters and numbers, not location) and have yet to be decoded.

This is a relatively rare style Snyder frame and the tank that fits it is very hard to find but it was also marketed tank-less so it can be accurately built as a stock bike without one.
 
RMS37,
Wow, thanks for the information. I have been restoring old cruiser bikes for the last couple of years and think I may have hit the jackpot with this find. I got a heck of a steal for this today as you see it with the exception of a new rear tire I placed on it this afternoon due to the original one basically disintegrating and the original grips splitting. Aside from what you mentioned, any idea on the value or what one could expect to sale it for if one was going to sell it?

Alex
 
Here is a reference

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300592829438?ss ... 500wt_1413

With shipping it went for $215.

The eBay bike is the rarer 1936 frame with the collet seat binder but is not in as good of condition. Looking at the mix of parts on your bike I believe some things were changed out over time (sprocket and drop stand probably) but I don’t think that has much effect on the value overall. As noted it is a desirable frame but some people are reticent to buy a bike that will be hard to tank.
 
rms37,
Thanks again for the info. Curious, which parts aside from the crank do you think are not original? What is the collet seat binder? IN comparing pictures, The crank and pedals look identical. The seat bracket is "L"shaped similar to the one on ebay as well.

Alex
 
It interests me that both the eBay bike and your bike are badged as Hawthornes. This specific frame was never shown in the Montgomery Wards Catalogs and until the appearance of these two bikes, I doubted if was ever offered as a Hawthorne. The earliest catalog (Rollfast) references I have seen of this frame show it without a tank and marketed as a Heavy Duty version of the more common rainbow configured version.

Since I can’t view the bikes in person I have to draw my opinions from photographs which are good for most part identification but inadequate to form conclusive opinions on provenance. It is possible that both the bikes have been rebadged as Hawthornes but it is equally possible that they were sold as Hawthorns and not cataloged or only sold through MW retail outlets. The impression I get looking at the photograph of your bike is that it has been pieced together by a previous collector based on some of the parts and the varying patina on them.

As for the specific details and parts on the two bikes:

The eBay bike uses a collet system to lock the seatpost into position which was a 1936 only design, your bike has a standard pinch bolt clamp. The eBay bike has a chainring with eight comets which is the pattern that Montgomery Ward used on Hawthornes from 1936-1939. The chainring on your bike has five comets which is the pattern used on later Huffman built bikes so it is a transplant. Another difference is that the earlier eBay bike has the earlier flat-top fork crown while your bike has the later domed version. This difference is appropriate given the age difference of the two frames.

The eBay bike has a lot of non-factory parts on it including the handlebars, the chainguard, and the generator. I believe in the rear fender because it still has the spacers that were used on early Snyders so the factory could build the frames into either 26 or 28 inch variants.

The eBay bike has an appropriately un-braced rear stand. The braces on your stand mean it is from a Colson or a Roadmaster and make it individually more valuable than the un-braced version that would have originally been on the bike but not likely to be factory original to your frame.

The bars on your bike look like the chrome is too nice to match the rest of the bike and Hawthornes typically used a clamped on brace bar rather than the fixed one on these bars. The year of the bike also generally predates the use of streamlined grips

The last point is the fenders, neither of these bikes has the flared tail on the front fender that I would expect, otherwise they look generally correct along with the braces that support them so that just remains a question in my mind.

All that said, it is a great find and many of the parts that I question as being original to that frame are probably worth more than the parts that would be “correct”. I’ve noted what I see to answer your questions and to be helpful in case restoration is something you are considering. As it stands you have a nice looking, complete bicycle with a rare frame. I would think that the overall condition of your bike coupled with good photos would bring an eBay sale price considerably higher than that of the even rarer 36 framed bike did.
 
RMS37,
You are a pool of vast knowledge! Thanks so much for all of that information. I replaced the grips yesterday afternoon with the torpedo ones due to the originals basically falling apart. Considering I only paid $65 for the bike, I think I found a gem in the rough. I am not going to restore as it is fully functional and has a ton of character as is. I have a 39' colson goodyear wings reliance that looks a lot like this bike so I was thrilled to find one similar in appearance. I may decide to sell it soon, but not until I am done showing it. I believe it is the original paint on this thing unless someone sandblasted it all the way down judging by the chips here and there, there seems to be no different layers underneath. Again, I am thrilled to have found this bike. Thanks

Alex
 
Nice bike. If it looks like it was never re-badge you have a very rare bike there. If you want to cash in you might want to parted it out and you'll probably make more money even though I think it should stay together
 
Axsepul,
Thanks for the comment. I love this bike and have been riding it and it definitely is a conversation piece. I am not going to part it out. If and when I do decide on selling it, it will be as a complete bike. I do not believe it to be re-badged.

Alex
 
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