Hercufleas Camel Back

[us56456712]

This frame was given to me. Originally it looked like the piles of stuff I saw for sale at the Amsterdam Flea Market in 1965. What great stuff they had then. WWII ankle length officer's coats, military surplus, old rugs, furniture, bikes, parts, lots of cool old junk that survived the war. When I got this frame it brought it all back. It's a 1960s Raleigh built Hercules camel back frame and fork.

I made it into a road bike with a Sachs coaster brake for camp because about the only thing that could go wrong was a flat tire. I now have an old cruiser I use at camp so this was an extra frame. I want to try and make it into a fixed gear bike so I can learn how to peddle better.
Currently it is sitting in my shed with my snowblowers. I tried to give it away this fall but no one wanted it so I am going to play musical bike parts. I still have to get the fixed and freewheel cogs. They are coming from China so I hope they get there before the build off ends.

I have a set of blue tires so I thought I would paint it blue with paint I have left over from the summer build off. Perhaps with black highlights. I have new set of deeper profile 700C wheels that might look strange with the funkey seat. I might have to spread the frame and fork? I plan to try and fit a different cottered crank with a smaller chain wheel. I don't know if the crank I have can be made to work on the Raleigh BB? I don't want to spend money on a lot of new parts so if it won't fit I will leave the original crank on it. I might fabricate a set of track slide outs (not technically drop outs so I don't know what they are called). That is about it. Perhaps a different seat, post, stem and bars from my junk. I started digging through my junk and have piles of potential parts laying all over my shop, shed and house. I guess the next step is to gather it all into one pile and see what I got and what I need. I think I have two sets of vintage Japanese road bike pedals floating around somewhere but I haven't found them yet. I hope I didn't toss them out?

 

[squirreldh]

The width of the BB shell and the threading are not the same as most threaded Bottom Brackets these days, however, they are similar in diameter and close to the same thread pitch. Dheldon Brown talks about chasing the threads with a 1.37×24tpi tap, and installing a 73mm shell width bb with a spacer. Not recommended if you are wrenching on a customers bicycle, lawyers suck, but i have done it to my own personal rides with success. Eliminating the cotter pin crank is nice if you dont have a cotter pin press for removal/installation of those old cranks.

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[squirreldh]

Sorry, should read "Sheldon Brown"

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[us56456712]

The width of the BB shell and the threading are not the same as most threaded Bottom Brackets these days, however, they are similar in diameter and close to the same thread pitch. Dheldon Brown talks about chasing the threads with a 1.37×24tpi tap, and installing a 73mm shell width bb with a spacer. Not recommended if you are wrenching on a customers bicycle, lawyers suck, but i have done it to my own personal rides with success. Eliminating the cotter pin crank is nice if you dont have a cotter pin press for removal/installation of those old cranks.

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I want to keep the cottered crank, I like them. Last winter I bought a NOS square taper replacement BB for a Raleigh to replace the cottered one. I got it from England off eBay. It was very reasonably priced but took along time to get here. The first one was lost in the mail so they promptly sent me another one by air mail. I don't want to bother changing everything on this bike as the original crank would work just fine. I remember correctly the Raleigh BB is a little wider, has the races farther apart and had different threads. I have an older Hercules camel back that is a real Hercules (before they were bought out by Raleigh) and it is of a much higher quality. This frame is cheaply made compared to the older one.

 

[squirreldh]

Yeah I have heard stories from one englishman I worked with in the past the employees at the Raleigh plant were half-cocked by noon! Not surprised the quality is lesser than those of the pre raleigh buy out. Most of their frames remained unchanged for decades as did the parts adorned on them, so i can understand the work becoming boring or mindless. The camelback frame is a little less common though, surprised you couldnt give it away! Because of the lower quality may be why some dont mind modifying them to run a more modern crank. I ran into a shop owner in Amherst, MA that said it was his lifes goal to rid the world of the cottered cranks. His shop is full of refurbed raleighs and off brands that have been converted to tapered spindle for reliability. I personally keep the cottered cranks if the bike is complete but dont mind upgrading if its just a frame. All depends on how easy it is for you to rethread it, or like you said, order a replacement BB with the proper threading. For some reason I really like these english bikes, seem to be gathering a decent collection of them because nobody else wants them. I look forward to seeing your build completed, however you decide to build it!

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[us56456712]

Yeah I have heard stories from one englishman I worked with in the past the employees at the Raleigh plant were half-cocked by noon! Not surprised the quality is lesser than those of the pre raleigh buy out. Most of their frames remained unchanged for decades as did the parts adorned on them, so i can understand the work becoming boring or mindless. The camelback frame is a little less common though, surprised you couldnt give it away! Because of the lower quality may be why some dont mind modifying them to run a more modern crank. I ran into a shop owner in Amherst, MA that said it was his lifes goal to rid the world of the cottered cranks. His shop is full of refurbed raleighs and off brands that have been converted to tapered spindle for reliability. I personally keep the cottered cranks if the bike is complete but dont mind upgrading if its just a frame. All depends on how easy it is for you to rethread it, or like you said, order a replacement BB with the proper threading. For some reason I really like these english bikes, seem to be gathering a decent collection of them because nobody else wants them. I look forward to seeing your build completed, however you decide to build it!

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I'm trying for inexpensive with the goal being a bike for the neighborhood to learn correct peddling so all I need is the fixed gear and an acceptable fit. I have read that to really learn proper peddling you need to ride fixed gear as it gives your body biofeedback. I have tried to practice each element of peddling but when I try and put them all together I fail. I learned to XC sKi by practicing each element and I was able to put them together. At first I had to concentrate on all the components but it eventually became mindless. That was when I was in my 20s. I can't ski anymore, too hard for the old body but thankfully I can still bike. I can't seem to do this with peddling. I think I have done peddling wrong for so long that the body/mind goes back to how I did it as a child. If it doesn't work I won't have a ton invested. It should be fun trying to fit the parts together. I don't understand the universal hate of cottered cranks, I really like them, perhaps because I grew up with them and the one piece. I really like both types.

 

[LukeTheJoker]

Love the camel back style frames! Very cool.

 

[us56456712]

Progress to date: I removed the bike from the Snowblower storage shed and it is in my shop. I brought the wheels, tires and tubes inside to warm up. I guess I tossed the Japanese road bike pedals I was planning to use but I found an all steel set that will work. I will partially disassemble the bike in my shop today before bringing it inside to build it. I will have to work in short shifts as it is -8F in the shop. It is going to get up to +11 today so I should be able to remove the big stuff without freezing my hands. I would like to take off the wheels, bars, stem and fork out there today. It's too cold to remove the chain as my fingers wouldn't work long enough in that temp. It is going to get warmer in the next two days so perhaps I can do some short shifts to break it down further out there. I would like to remove the crank in the shop before it comes into one of our rooms. My house is 100% finished so I have to work on the floor in a spare room on cardboard.

 

[Funkme]

Nice little frame to start with,watching where you with this one.

 

[us56456712]

I got the wheels and handlebars off. It's so cold in my shop I can't put the nuts back on to keep from loosing them. I worked for about 5 minutes. After the wood stove warms me up I will remove the seat and post. Then it can come inside.

Edit: Seat and post are off, the bike frame is warming up inside my house. It's way below zero outside. The warmest I noticed on the thermometer by my window today was +2F, it never got close to the predicted high of +11F for today. The worst part is grabbing -10F tools in my shop, about one bolt is all you can manage at a time.

 

[us56456712]

Heating my tools from my outdoor shop up to room temperature.

It's warmer today +15F, took off the chain and fork.

 

[us56456712]

No bench vice in the bedroom. My homemade furniture clamp cotter remover works great if the cotter is't stuck. I find it easier and faster to use this than the vice and socket method, you can easily remove a cotter on the bike without having to take it apart so it fits on your bench vice. Of course if it's stuck this won't work.

The smaller cottered chain wheel I wanted to use won't fit. Notice how the bottom crank arm is longer where it attached to the chain wheel. It hits the frame on a chain stay, which prevents it from going on the spindle far enough for the cotter to slide in. I have welded a chain wheel to a cottered arm before and it has to be perfect, otherwise it wobbles. It can look perfect when it's welded but when you use it, it's not perfect. I have 2 of these old Raleigh cottered cranks so I might try and weld the 32 tooth chain wheel on to where the original 46 is? In the end I will probably end out using the original Raleigh set up as I can't find a set with a smaller then 46 tooth chain wheel. Bo ho.

 

[OddJob]

Heating my tools from my outdoor shop up to room temperature.

View attachment 42303

It's warmer today +15F, took off the chain and fork.
View attachment 42294

Hahaha! Love your beer 'fridge'...^ !

Also, this quote had me laughing. It is definitely important to keep your nuts on in the cold....

"It's so cold in my shop I can't put the nuts back on to keep from loosing them."

 

[RustyGold]

It took my mind several seconds to recognize what my eyes were seeing on your beer fridge pic...love it

Jason

 

[Chad T]

Good looking frame to build on. What are you using for pedaling technique info? I remember reading a book as a kid and adopting some of the techniques like "ankleing" but haven't been much of a serious cyclist since my teenage years. Would be interesting to have a look at some of that again. That's a ridiculous amount of snow! Bet that cools the beers down quick.

 

[us56456712]

Good looking frame to build on. What are you using for pedaling technique info? I remember reading a book as a kid and adopting some of the techniques like "ankleing" but haven't been much of a serious cyclist since my teenage years. Would be interesting to have a look at some of that again. That's a ridiculous amount of snow! Bet that cools the beers down quick.

Ankeling, lifting, sweeping (like cleaning your feet on a mat), pushing, using your hips, dropping your heel. These are not the technical terms. You get bad shin splints if you don't work into this as the legs are not use to doing this for a lot of miles right off. Two winters ago we went to the gym to get ready for our trip across England and my wife and I worked on all this. I could get ankeling but then I tried to add sweeping it just fell apart. My wife got bad shin splints that still bother her on occasion.
http://www.bicycling.com/training/fitness/perfect-pedal-stroke

 

[us56456712]

I ground off the swaged chain wheels. I had to file down the Raleigh crank arm a little to fit in the hole on the Taiwan chain wheel. I welded the Raleigh crank arm onto the 32 tooth Taiwan chain wheel. It is still very cold here. I had a big problem striking an arc so I used a blow torch to heat the metal. It went a lot better but the electric leads were so stiff that I couldn't get the electrode pointed where I wanted to. I ended out tacking it together. I might go use my buddies welder. He has a heated shop. He has a broken shoulder and will probably let me use his welder as he can't use it now.

 

[franconuevo]

-7 degrees..you've got to be kidding me?
just don't lick the fenders.

 

[LukeTheJoker]

Nice work @us56456712!

I have welded chainwheels to cranks before, provided the surface is flat and you check it after tacking, they always seem to turn out well!

 

[us56456712]

-7 degrees..you've got to be kidding me?
just don't lick the fenders.

Going to be -8F tonight. We got another foot of snow over the last 2 days so I had to spend the afternoon shoveling my sidewalk, mailbox, driveway, patio and deck. The rule is once you finish shoveling/snow blowing a snow plow goes buy. That is exactly what happened but my young neighbor, Brian, blew out my driveway where the snow plow driver deposited the excess snow. I didn't have to go outside to shovel again. My across the street neighbor had his 92 birthday the day before Christmas and he was shoveling yesterday and snow blowing today. My other neighbor offered to do it for him for $30. Boy did he get mad, his wife called up and gave them a piece of her mind, "my husband is perfectly capable of shoveling us out". Very cold here still but it is going to warm up to 30F next week. My furnace went out yesterday and I really didn't notice it because I have a wood fire supplement. Well about 4 AM this morning I got so cold I had to get up and put on a flannel shirt, pants and heavy wool sox. This morning I could see my breath so I stoked up the wood fire, called the heating contractor, put on 2 jackets, a wool hat, ear muffs and gloves. Three hours later we were back in business with a new thermocouple. That was not fun, especially trying to sleep in outdoor wear.