ID Help Info please

[Tlawdogg]

Hello, new. Looking to get an old Schwinn bike. I have my eyes on a frame w/parts and a almost complete bike. Attached pictures. Please let me know what they are. Years. Parts easy to find?. Prices or Value? The Schwinn frame has NO kickstand mount, told rear stand only. Both Serial #'s on bottom under crank. Frame: A28501 Bike: G317243. Thank you Experts!

 

[schwinn boy]

according to google the full bike is from september 15th 1950. The frame is pre factory fire but if you sequence the code backwards it's probably from 1946 or so. it looks like all you need is a chain which is easy to find. Prices have gone crazy high for schwinns lately. i'd probably go $500 for both or if I had to pick one, $350 for the adult sized one.

 

[Tlawdogg]

Great Info!! Thank you.
Did the bike have a tank or would one fit on it? (The 1950 complete bike, no chain). Seller is asking a pretty penny. Stay Safe.
-T

 

[RustyGold]

I get 11/16 1951 for the frame.

 

[Tlawdogg]

Rusty Gold,
I did find that date too. But Seller saying its pre FIRE and in 1951 all schwinns came with the kick stand . This frame does not have that piece to mount a kickstand. No evidence it was removed.
Thoughts? Possible?, BS?
Thank you for any insight.

 

[Wildcat]

The complete bike looks like a B-4 model with an added headlight, or an Autocycle with tank and rack missing. Made 9/15/1950 by that number you have. This is from the 1950 catalog:
Autocycle:

B-4:

That frame is cantilever, so the tank that fits it is fairly common, and there are numerous repop tanks that will fit that bike.

The other frame, a DX frame, might be 1946 as Schwinn Boy posted. If the number is on the BB. The 46 catalog I've found leaves a lot out, so that's not much help. The 48 catalog states all models have the built in kickstand. I've seen a few Schwinn frames where the owner removed the bracket so a cheaper kickstand could be added. You would have to see that part of the frame close up to determine if it had a bracket when new. The other way to get the year is on the cranks, sometimes a 2 digit year will be shown.

 

[Tlawdogg]

Wild cat,
Thank you.. Great pictures too...
I have asked frame seller about cranks..he has to remove, clean and let me know. I will get detailed pictures of that frame area to see re : kickstand.
Again, Thank you very much.
I am leaning towards the Bike (B4?) Since this is a first for me. I will update when I get additional information.
NOTE: would the painted Lines on fenders indicate which model? (Between B4 or Autocycle) It appears to have original paint & lines. I will add a picture of the front fender (not the best). Thank you!!

 

[Wildcat]

The catalogs aren't perfect but give an idea of what the particular models looked like. These two both have the same pinstripes on painted fenders if the illustrations are correct. I'm leaning towards Autocycle now after seeing the light on the front fender close up. That fender was made for the light; the switch is integrated into the fender. I would look for mounting marks on the seatstays where a rack would have bolted up. (Autocycle is B-6)

 

[RustyGold]

I used to use the bikehistory lookup tool...and it gave me wrong info almost every time. I've learned to trust the info on the angelfire pages...but, the pages themselves are a mess of either bad coding or malware...so, I don't often link to them. That is where I got the 11/15 '51 date.

As to the kickstand, I know that a lot latter there was a middleweight that came without a built in kickstand (~59, I think)...and I vaguely remember reading somewhere about an earlier case without kickstands...but can't remember or find the particulars.

This should help clear up the '46 or '51 (from thecabe...important parts bolded )...

1946 series Hxxxxx Ixxxxx Jxxxxx A0xxxx (small type face) Bxxxxx
Cxxxxx (low number)

Cxxxxx is probably a cusp number between 46 and 47. More on the 47 side.



1947 series Cxxxxx/Dxxxxx

1948 series Dxxxxx ect...

Identifying features:

Skinny drop outs (1946)
Razor edge fenders
Shortie rear fender(early 1946 rare)
light cover has deep rear screw hole
Raised or de bossed style AS clamp(rare)
Non scripted light lens
Tapered pencil kick stand
Canti frames have more of a hump to the top tube. (Early)
Straight bars ie "fat bars" have same dia bottom tubing. (This feature also was found on later years and is not solely indicative of a 1946)
Rack clamp is a one piece flat band aid shaped plate.
Rear top stay fender bracket is sometimes tubular on early frames. (I've only seen this on dx models). My 46 rear fender stay mount is taller and more boxy then late 40s 50s style.
Early 46 tanks have been seen with tapped brackets ie left over snap style prewar tanks.
Big outtie delta horn button and tank hole (prewar size).
Chain guard front frame mount tab is thinner with bigger hole.
Grips will be oval with one tail coming off N without double back crossover(late prewar style)
Rear chevron will be shorter on 46.
Drop center rims or sometimes Lobdell flat profile rims.
1946 bikes have been found with 1941 stamped dogleg cranks
skinny truss rods.
Springer pivot bolt rumored to be chrome on early 46?
Pivot clip was prewar style half clip.(early)
Springer fenders sported diamond and tombstone reinforcement tabs
Granted stuff got replaced or got carried over ie pencil stand.
Note; (A) serial started again in 51 but in regular larger print.
What I have gathered doing research and asking experts is that the I J and K serials would have been left over prewar BB shells and or frames that had already been stamped prior. A being the first true postwar serial.

 

[RustyGold]

Found some info...mildly conflicting info. I've saw some posts on thecabe that state one year only 1955 Spitfire (dx frame) came without built in kickstands. Other posts claim 53+ DX frames, no kickstand. I believe the latter as I've seen a couple '53s without kickstands. However, since you stated your SN was under the bottom bracket, that would put it at '52 or earlier (SN moved to the left dropout during '52 model year)...so, I think your kickstand was removed at some point.

 

[Tlawdogg]

Rusty Gold,
Thank you for the Information.
I plan on seeing the complete bike tomorrow. (The frame & parts is a 2 hour drive). I will keep you posted.

 

[Tlawdogg]

UPDATE:
I bought the 1950 Autocycle Schwinn!
I think I got a good deal. Almost half off his listing price. I will have MANY questions now that I got it.
How can I tell if the SEAT is a Schwinn original? I can post pictures later.
Very Excited! Posted picture of seat and what is that below the seat??

-T

 

[Wildcat]

Congrats!
Did you get the other frame?

It looks like the same seat as in the catalog illustration. This pic is from the 46 catalog, but shows the shiny trim piece on the side of the seat like yours:

When you take it off, the seat stem should look like the seat has always been on there, nice and shiny where the seat collar was.

That bracket is part of a rear rack that wasn't probably Schwinn. I remember those aluminum tubular style racks from years ago.

 

[Tlawdogg]

Wild cat,
I did not get the frame. (Too far and he was not negotiable on price.)
I will remove seat later today .
How do I determine the size & length of a chain for it?
Also, tube size same as tires? And does it need that rubber band piece that covers the spoke parts? Between rim & tube.
Any tips would be very helpful.
Thank you.
-T...Newbie !