ID help please

[CulmerBuilt]

Hello everyone. Can anyone help me ID this frame? Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[CulmerBuilt]

Stamped on the drop out is WC57 and under that is 317717

 

[Wildcat]

It looks from the 50's, can you get a pic of the headtube where the original headbadge was? The shape may be discernable and match up to a brand name.

 

[CulmerBuilt]

No marks or head badge holes on the headtube. Thanks for the reply. I’m guessing it’s a ‘57 from the numbers

It looks from the 50's, can you get a pic of the headtube where the original headbadge was? The shape may be discernable and match up to a brand name.

 

[Wildcat]

Any numbers on the bottom bracket?

 

[CulmerBuilt]

Any numbers on the bottom bracket?

No. Just the numbers on the dropout.

 

[rickpaulos]

Columbia build, probably sold under another name since the serial numbers don't match Columbia branded bikes. They used the wishbone stays design and the dropouts look like typical Columbia joinery. Columbia made some of the US Army bikes during WW2 intended for use at bases and delivering messages. No relation to Columbia winter wear.

Columbia was started by Col Albert Pope (not Alexander Pope) the one time richest man in the world, just before gas powered cars made Rockefeller rich and steel made Carnegie rich. Columbia was once the largest bike manufacturer in the world. Went bankrupt making both gas & electric cars in the 1900 decade trying to hedge his bets on which would take over. The company changed owners and names (to Westfield mfg and back to Columbia) along the long history. The company is still in business but is making furniture now. Some bikes were sold as Westfield as the company was based in Westfield Mass. Pope was an early proponent of paving roads for bikes, before cars were sold. He went into the Civil War as a second lieutenant, mustered out as a captain, though he received the honorary title of Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel for distinguished service. He took the Colonel name to fit his ego.

Here is a closeup of a Columbia from the www. Same drill hole in the dropout, same flattened stays with the dropout stuck inside, spot weld marks, same overall shape. Yours looks a bit bent out of shape. The axle slot sides should be parallel to each other.

 

[Wildcat]

The dropouts back then were like a trademark, every frame can be IDed by the shape of the dropout. Other features can also determine the manufacturer, but the dropouts are a dead giveaway. Each manufacturer had their own design.
I thought Columbia and Monark at first, but the dropouts don't match. The front part curves the other direction from Columbia. I also checked Huffy and others, but they don't match up either. I can't find any brand that matches up, yet.
As for the serial numbers, Columbia stamped theirs in the same spot as yours, and used the same small neat font. But they had a letter and numbering system a lot different than yours.
That frame is most probably a 50's USA frame but I'm still researching to try to get a good ID on it.

 

[CulmerBuilt]

Columbia build, probably sold under another name since the serial numbers don't match Columbia branded bikes. They used the wishbone stays design and the dropouts look like typical Columbia joinery. Columbia made some of the US Army bikes during WW2 intended for use at bases and delivering messages. No relation to Columbia winter wear.

Columbia was started by Col Albert Pope (not Alexander Pope) the one time richest man in the world, just before gas powered cars made Rockefeller rich and steel made Carnegie rich. Columbia was once the largest bike manufacturer in the world. Went bankrupt making both gas & electric cars in the 1900 decade trying to hedge his bets on which would take over. The company changed owners and names (to Westfield mfg and back to Columbia) along the long history. The company is still in business but is making furniture now. Some bikes were sold as Westfield as the company was based in Westfield Mass. Pope was an early proponent of paving roads for bikes, before cars were sold. He went into the Civil War as a second lieutenant, mustered out as a captain, though he received the honorary title of Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel for distinguished service. He took the Colonel name to fit his ego.

Here is a closeup of a Columbia from the www. Same drill hole in the dropout, same flattened stays with the dropout stuck inside, spot weld marks, same overall shape. Yours looks a bit bent out of shape. The axle slot sides should be parallel to each other.

View attachment 282865

Thanks Rick!

The dropouts back then were like a trademark, every frame can be IDed by the shape of the dropout. Other features can also determine the manufacturer, but the dropouts are a dead giveaway. Each manufacturer had their own design.
I thought Columbia and Monark at first, but the dropouts don't match. The front part curves the other direction from Columbia. I also checked Huffy and others, but they don't match up either. I can't find any brand that matches up, yet.
As for the serial numbers, Columbia stamped theirs in the same spot as yours, and used the same small neat font. But they had a letter and numbering system a lot different than yours.
That frame is most probably a 50's USA frame but I'm still researching to try to get a good ID on it.

Thank you!

 

[CulmerBuilt]

I think I got it figured out. It’s a ‘57 Monark Rocket middleweight. Now if I can just find decals for it.