Kickback Hubs- Red Band vs Yellow Band: Brakes

[GTV]

A bit of background first... Bendix red band kickbacks were the first and used "disc" type brakes. Yellow (and blue) kickbacks followed and used a "drum" type braking system.

The first hub I ever rebuilt was a yellow band kickback, it's still on my bike and works fine... Except for the brakes. At first the brakes seemed ok, I didn't have much prior experience with coaster brake hubs, but I could lock up the rear wheel if I stood on it hard enough. A year and a half later, locking up the rear wheel is impossible, the braking leaves a LOT to be desired.
A few months ago, I rebuilt a red band kickback for another bike of mine. The brakes on it are impressive, in fact it is almost too easy to lock it up. It stops like a dog on the end of its rope!

So, what gives? I would think the yellow band, being the later design, would have superior brakes, but that is not the case at all. My buddy was riding the red band bike just ahead of me last night, and I very nearly rear ended him when a car pulled out in front of us. I've got to do something about this... The only thing I can think of is that I used standard automotive grease when I rebuilt the yellow band, and proper bicycle grease when I rebuilt the red band. I'm also building up another bike with a kickback, I have a yellow band ready to be rebuilt and so far everything but a shell for a red band. Which one should I use?

Any thoughts??

 

[Jpromo]

I'd rebuild the yellow again. If you ride regularly, you can expect to regrease a year or two between. It dissipates and spreads away from critical points.

When you rebuilt the red, did you grease the discs? They are made to be oiled only and if they were greased, they may not be fully disengaging and leaving themselves very near to engaging fully at all times. So maybe you can even pull this one apart as well, greasing the ball bearings and oiling the discs. The disc style is definitely the superior design in my opinion. The design was borrowed from the old New Departure hubs that are among the best coasters made.

 

[udallcustombikes]

I agree that the red bands are superior in the braking aspect. When you rebuild your yellow band again sand the braking surfaces of the shoes and the inside of the hub shell to remove any glazing that has formed over the years. I will use a 1000 grit or finer lubes with a light oil. I do the same with the red band's discs only using a whet stone unless they are badly scarred.

I believe lower manufacturing cost may have played into the kickback hub's evolution.

 

[B607]

I agree with udall. A couple of pads are a whole lot cheaper to make than all those brass discs. The brass discs have tabs on them that eventually get bent up corners. When this happens your red band won't stop like a dog on a rope anymore. Removing the glazing on yellow band pads has always helped mine stop better.
Schwinn had a lot more confidence in the kickback brakes than they did with the older 2 speed lever action Bendix. With those, Schwinn always provided front hand brakes as a back up. Gary

 

[The Black Monark]

IIRC the yellow & blue (and single-band coaster) require the cone that is fixed against the brake arm to be aligned correctly.
Basically the shoes need to be vertical and not horizontal.
If it's not assembled correctly, one shoe is pulled down by gravity and sits against the braking surface.
Seems this would impact braking action as well as causing premature wear.

 

[toby4130]

I was just gona make a post about Kickbacks and low an behold I logged on and found this one, I have a Red Stripe kickback and want to rebuild it, I've found some really nice part break downs but does anyone have an idea of where I can get some rebuild directions? Thanks Toby

 

[GTV]

You don't need directions, just take it apart, clean & re-grease, and assemble. Make sure the shift ring/tab thingies are in good condition.

Thanks for the help fellas. I guess I'm on the lookout for a red band shell and brake arm now!

 

[The Black Monark]

You don't need directions, just take it apart, clean & re-grease, and assemble. Make sure the shift ring/tab thingies are in good condition.

Yeah, like the old Chilton's books say: installation is the reverse of removal :lol:

 

[toby4130]

Cool, from the parts break down I found it didn't look as scary as I thought it would. Thanks for the help Guys

 

[udallcustombikes]

Here is a thread covering red and yellow rebuilds.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21780

 

[B607]

You don't need directions, just take it apart, clean & re-grease, and assemble. Make sure the shift ring/tab thingies are in good condition.

Thanks for the help fellas. I guess I'm on the lookout for a red band shell and brake arm now!

Make sure the hub is in low gear when you disassemble it or you will be looking to replace a broken coupler. Gary

 

[GTV]

You don't need directions, just take it apart, clean & re-grease, and assemble. Make sure the shift ring/tab thingies are in good condition.

Thanks for the help fellas. I guess I'm on the lookout for a red band shell and brake arm now!

Make sure the hub is in low gear when you disassemble it or you will be looking to replace a broken coupler. Gary

And if it's stuck in high (1:1) gear, you'll have to cut the axle! :roll: