King Phillip

[schwinn boy]

To begin this build I’ll start us off with a before and after.
This Iverson Grant’s department store bike was found in the scrap by a friend and as soon as I acquired it I threw a Nexus 3 in it. I’ve put about 2,000 miles on the thing and I’m sick of it. It’s too small for me and pretty heavy.
What do you do when you have way too many projects? Take a working bike apart of course.

First replace the broom, then replace the handle. This English Phillips frame is three inches taller and lighter than the old frame so it’s gonna get my fancy nexus wheel set from the other bike and become my new daily.

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[schwinn boy]

The original cranks are cracked so I’ll be putting my Schwinn New World cotter pin cranks to use on it.

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[schwinn boy]

Cotter Pin Woes. Took me a long while to get these out.

The bearings actually look pretty good. I’ll be able to clean and reuse them.

I am going to make some weight based decisions on this build because my goal is to have the finished bike be below the 30 lbs mark. The blue bike in it’s current form weighs 32.4 lbs. Just changing the neck will save me almost 7 ounces any that means it still has to lose 2 lbs, which I think between the three piece cranks, light seatpost, and double butted tubing is very possible.I’ve found a source for 26x1 3/8 aluminum rims which I might buy for this build and if I can find aluminum roadster bars I’d buy those too.

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[us56456712]

The original cranks are cracked so I’ll be putting my Schwinn New World cotter pin cranks to use on it.

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Are the Schwinn and Phillips cotters the same diameter and taper? If the original spindle used smaller diameter cotters than the Schwinn, use the smaller ones. The Schwinn spindle might fit the Phillips bb width, if you still have it. The most important thing is to match the cotter to the spindle. It’s OK if the cotters are smaller than the crank arm holes. Offset might be different and you can use a shim on the bb. Some of those Schwinn three piece cottered cranks used half inch pedals. Fitting non original cottered cranks can be challenging. It won’t be as bad a job as fitting one with removable chainrings. Sometimes the chainring rubs the frame. French cottered cranks generally mount the chainring on the inside of the three pins, Italian usually on the outside of the three arms giving you more frame clearance. Of course Italian bb are wider so you have to mismatch spindles and most likely cotters. There is no info about all this fitting old three piece cottered cranks to different frames and spindles on the net. Sellers hardly ever know what spindles or cotters fit what they are selling. Buy them as cheap as you can because there is a good chance it will not fit and go in the garbage. Buy another, repeat until it all sorta fits.

 

[us56456712]

Cotter Pin Woes. Took me a long while to get these out.

The bearings actually look pretty good. I’ll be able to clean and reuse them.

I am going to make some weight based decisions on this build because my goal is to have the finished bike be below the 30 lbs mark. The blue bike in it’s current form weighs 32.4 lbs. Just changing the neck will save me almost 7 ounces any that means it still has to lose 2 lbs, which I think between the three piece cranks, light seatpost, and double butted tubing is very possible.I’ve found a source for 26x1 3/8 aluminum rims which I might buy for this build and if I can find aluminum roadster bars I’d buy those too.

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I have a very old shop grade cotter press. It reminds me of a big bolt cutter. Cotters can be so stuck that these won’t even remove them. Sheldon Brown broke one of these trying to remove a stuck pin. If it’s real stuck drill a hole a little smaller than the pin, for the length of the pin. Don’t drill into the crank meat. Now it will come out easily.

 

[ifitsfreeitsforme]

When I become World Dictator, I'm going to outlaw cotter cranks.

 

[schwinn boy]

I have a very old shop grade cotter press. It reminds me of a big bolt cutter. Cotters can be so stuck that these won’t even remove them. Sheldon Brown broke one of these trying to remove a stuck pin. If it’s real stuck drill a hole a little smaller than the pin, for the length of the pin. Don’t drill into the crank meat. Now it will come out easily.

I ended up fitting these in my vice with a lug nut on one side and I was able to press it right out. Unfortunately I hammered on it just enough to ruin both, but I have replacements.


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[Wildcat]

Have you checked the weight of the cottered crankset? Compared to a 3 piece alloy crankset it might save another lb. The New World looks great, but you might find a vintage looking chainwheel in a lighter setup.

 

[us56456712]

I ended up fitting these in my vice with a lug nut on one side and I was able to press it right out. Unfortunately I hammered on it just enough to ruin both, but I have replacements.


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That’s OK, especially if you have the right replacement. About two weeks ago my son borrowed my cotter press to remove the pins on his 1920s track bike. He pressed on the backed off bolt and the threaded part of the cotter bent. These were new replacement pins. You can’t buy much in the way of crank cotters now and what you get are grade C. That’s why they bent. They used to be machined out of higher grade steel. Now they are made from cheap undersized rods and the taper is pressed in and the rod diameter expands to fit the crank hole, sort of. Cheap soft junk. My son rides his old wood wheeled track bike in ways it shouldn’t be ridden. Seventy mile road rides 3 - 4 times a week, plus daily of at least 30 road miles On most other days. The pins need weekly tightening and monthly replacement. A 200 pound, 6 foot three retired professional athlete young man climbing hills and slowing with fixed gear force on descents wrecks these cheap cotters. New ones every month or so, plus frequent wood wheel truing. It should be ridden as intended, on a track, but he loves riding it and we have no track.

 

[schwinn boy]

That’s OK, especially if you have the right replacement. About two weeks ago my son borrowed my cotter press to remove the pins on his 1920s track bike. He pressed on the backed off bolt and the threaded part of the cotter bent. These were new replacement pins. You can’t buy much in the way of crank cotters now and what you get are grade C. That’s why they bent. They used to be machined out of higher grade steel. Now they are made from cheap undersized rods and the taper is pressed in and the rod diameter expands to fit the crank hole, sort of. Cheap soft junk. My son rides his old wood wheeled track bike in ways it shouldn’t be ridden. Seventy mile road rides 3 - 4 times a week, plus daily of at least 30 road miles On most other days. The pins need weekly tightening and monthly replacement. A 200 pound, 6 foot three retired professional athlete young man climbing hills and slowing with fixed gear force on descents wrecks these cheap cotters. New ones every month or so, plus frequent wood wheel truing. It should be ridden as intended, on a track, but he loves riding it and we have no track.

I have cheap pins I plan on putting on it and if those don’t work out I have a quality pair I salvaged from a Raleigh. The Schwinn cranks fit on the Phillips spindle great and for some reason, I remember hearing that Schwinn’s cottered cranks were made in England.


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[schwinn boy]

Have you checked the weight of the cottered crankset? Compared to a 3 piece alloy crankset it might save another lb. The New World looks great, but you might find a vintage looking chainwheel in a lighter setup.

View attachment 145121

Yes I did, it’s 10 oz lighter than the one piece cranks from the blue bike. I’m sure there’s more weight to be shaved but I’m happy with the classic looks of the cotter pins. This bicycle is also on a tight ish budget and I already had a lot of cotter pin stuff around.


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[us56456712]

I have cheap pins I plan on putting on it and if those don’t work out I have a quality pair I salvaged from a Raleigh. The Schwinn cranks fit on the Phillips spindle great and for some reason, I remember hearing that Schwinn’s cottered cranks were made in England.


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Cheap pins will be OK for normal riding with a non fixed gear drive. I have two rebuilt old English Hercules bikes with cottered cranks and the cheap replacements work just fine. I had to re press one of them after a few miles, but square taper cranks can become squeaky as well.

 

[schwinn boy]

Cheap pins will be OK for normal riding with a non fixed gear drive. I have two rebuilt old English Hercules bikes with cottered cranks and the cheap replacements work just fine. I had to re press one of them after a few miles, but square taper cranks can become squeaky as well.

Yes it’ll be treated nicely, maybe 30 mile rides max. the hub will be a Shimano nexus 3 coaster brake. I’ll be sure to tighten them after 5, 10, and 30 miles. It’s my first cotter pin bike so I hope it all works out.


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[schwinn boy]

The bottom bracket was stuck pretty bad but it came loose with some heat and leverage.

The Spindle was garbage and so were the bearings. The replacement spindle is from a Phillips so it will work fine. I’ll be reusing the loose headset bearings.

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[schwinn boy]

Ready for assembly!

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[schwinn boy]

Surprisingly the Schwinn cranks take 1/2” pedals not 9/16” so I was able to just use my pedals from the other bike.

The threads were too long and the pedal stuck out of the crank arm causing a clearance issue with the chainstay. I broke out my special adjusting tool and took a couple hairs off the left pedal.

Perfect.

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[schwinn boy]

I took my blue bike for it’s final ride the other day. And my Phillips for it’s first! It’s so much better with the new frame.

It’s down from 32.4 to the 30 lbs mark I was hoping for, I just need to swap the neck out and it’ll be there!

For reference this specialized is 34 lbs

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[RPJ]

30lb is good, mine is 54.5lb

 

[schwinn boy]

30lb is good, mine is 54.5lb

My heaviest two are my Elgin at 48.6 lbs

And my B6 weighing in at 52 lbs

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