Long shot but ... further CWC frame I.D.?

[whitefiretiger]

I know this is a long shot but I'm trying to get some idea what this bike is before I go look at it Monday.



I know the seat, wheels, fork, stem & ect are probably all newer stuff; but I'm just after it for the frame.

It might be hard to see but the rear dropouts have the screws to adjust the rear wheel.

That's not a head badge on it its a skateboard sticker.

Not expecting detailed or exact I.D.
Just a ballpark of possible brand and year range.

Thanks.

 

[Wildcat]

You're right, just the frame is what is Cleveland Welding Company from the early 50's. Either a Roadmaster or Western Flyer frame. There should be a serial number on the bottom bracket. My 53 CWC frame had a 53Cw at the end of the numbers.

 

[whitefiretiger]

Thanks. What's the most you'd pay to get the bike. I don't want to overpay.
Had a feeling it was from the 50s but I havnt been around enough of the good oldies to I'd them.

I'm wanting the frame for my rat build; aka a frame to put my 1941 western flyer parts on as the women's frame is trash.

 

[Wildcat]

If the frame is good as it looks, the wheels straight and everything works, I'd go as high as $75, but start at $40. The tires look fairly new also. Even though the frame is the only vintage thing, everything else looks useable.

 

[whitefiretiger]

Thanks; its nice to have info to go on.

The rear tire has dome cracking and tube won't hold air from what I was told.
He said before the tube stopped holding air it was rideable & in good shape but I'll find out when I go check it out.

 

[Jpromo]

The frame is indeed CWC built; with that frame and dropouts, it's 47-49. Could have been badged Roadmaster, Western Flyer, Hiawatha, Hawthorne, several other things but those are the big ones.

 

[Wildcat]

That's even better if it's a 40's bike. The seat stem is probably original and it looks like they had a hard time getting the seat to fit on that narrow diameter stem. That's a bargaining point in your favor if the seat won't tighten up correctly. With the tire having issues, start at 30 bucks.

 

[whitefiretiger]

Thanks Jpromo
If its from the 40s is even better.

Wildcat you hit the nail on the head... Think I'm going to try for $30

 

[scrumblero]

must be nice... just that frame would be $80+ on the west coast...

 

[whitefiretiger]

Lol I have a funny feeling he is wanting around $100 for it but as just a frame for a rat build I don't want to go past $50.

Anything 1960s or older here is generally $100+ but from time to time you can talk people down or they just have no idea what they have and think its gold and when you point out everything that's wrong they tend to come down.

 

[whitefiretiger]

Just got the frame. $30
Maybe you guy can help I.D this better now.
Serial number is: A*****
It is a CWC frame... Has the big C with W inside it after the serial.

I'll take more pics tomorrow.

 

[whitefiretiger]

Looks like Jpromo hit the nail on the head.

I have been reading online for what seems like hours lol.

Seems the CW suffix indicated postwar starting in 46?.
And the dropouts places it from 46-49.
The A at the beginning places this as a 46 or a very early 47 built frame as B serial was still early 47.

I'm very excited about this frame as it is straight and sturdy. There are a couple dings in the frame (one of them seems to be from a crank arm hitting the frame).

Its sad it has been repainted metallic silver color (as can be seen in the pics in the last post)
I'm going to try to see if there is any original paint under there but in the few chipped places it isn't looking like there is.

The frame is indeed CWC built; with that frame and dropouts, it's 47-49. Could have been badged Roadmaster, Western Flyer, Hiawatha, Hawthorne, several other things but those are the big ones.

 

[Jpromo]

Looks like Jpromo hit the nail on the head.

I have been reading online for what seems like hours lol.

Seems the CW suffix indicated postwar starting in 46?.
And the dropouts places it from 46-49.
The A at the beginning places this as a 46 or a very early 47 built frame as B serial was still early 47.

I'm very excited about this frame as it is straight and sturdy. There are a couple dings in the frame (one of them seems to be from a crank arm hitting the frame).

Its sad it has been repainted metallic silver color (as can be seen in the pics in the last post)
I'm going to try to see if there is any original paint under there but in the few chipped places it isn't looking like there is.

You're definitely on the right track with your research! Early Postwar CWC is very finicky and there are many factors that go into dating them. I said '47-49 when you put the curve of the downtube into the equation. Prewar and early postwar had a very shallow curve, which gave way to a deeper curve late in '46. So you can get a '46 with the deep curve but typically they're later. The A serial here followed by the Cw suffix would be mid-1947.

 

[whitefiretiger]

Cool I'm going to be calling it a 47

What years of tank will fit?

And any chance this if factory green in the bb?

 

[whitefiretiger]

Have a curiosity if the CWC frame could be further I.D.ed by the spacing of the head badge holes?
I can't see every company having the spacing the same.
If anybody has any idea on this let me know; the holes are 2-7/8" from center to center.

Was planning to reuse my 41 western flyer head badge but the hole spacing is way shorter (in fact the badge is shorter than the holes in this CWC frame) so maybe if I can find out what this was from the badge spacing I can get a badge that will use the existing holes.

 

[Herman]

Your 41 WF may have been built by another bike manufacturer besides CWC , on the CWC built WF the bottom hole on the headbadge is at the very bottom tip of the badge

 

[Vin-New]

Nice CWC RM Bike. Your head badge should be like attached pic. It measures the 2.875" Center Hole to hole. It wasn't til later when AMF Rotated the Badge for future use. Badges Rotated to Show what I meant by Rotated.

 

[whitefiretiger]

Your 41 WF may have been built by another bike manufacturer besides CWC , on the CWC built WF the bottom hole on the headbadge is at the very bottom tip of the badge

Yea the 41 would have been a Huffman.

Nice CWC RM Bike. Your head badge should be like attached pic. It measures the 2.875" Center Hole to hole. It wasn't til later when AMF Rotated the Badge for future use. Badges Rotated to Show what I meant by Rotated.

So was my CWC most likely a Roadmaster?
I know these frames were used by many brands. I just wasn't sure if that 2.875" spacing was standardized on these frames or specific to one brand like roadmaster.

 

[Jpromo]

There are many different badgings that used this same inverted shield stamped badge. Most of them I've only seen prewar though then the much later AMF style one. I've never seen the other variants on postwar bikes so the typical Roadmaster one pictured above would be correct. Easy to come by.

 

[whitefiretiger]

OK thanks I'll keep my eyes open for one.

If I can't find one at a reasonable cost I may still find a way to use my WF badge