Looking for more info on a possible Elgin bike and a Donalson Jockey Cycle

[Bike from the Dead]

Earlier on this Wednesday, my dad was at a local fire museum, and I guess they had some stuff in storage they didn't want/need anymore, so they offered to just give him whatever he wanted out of what was there. Among the stuff he took home with him was a bike (that'll I'll get to next,) and this weird little old trike. I did some digging, and learned what he acquired is a "Donalson Jockey Trike," made by the J.E. Donalson Manufacturing Company sometime in the 1940s, about 1944-48. From what I've read, they didn't make a ton of these, maybe 100, before they went out of business. I'm not sure how much of this info is correct, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Dad's Jockey Cycle seems to be mostly complete, save for the handlebars and a few missing spokes on one wheel. If anyone here knows more about these Jockey Cycles, please let me know. Dad and I would both love to learn more about this curious little trike.

Also, here's what this thing looks like in motion, for those like me who wanted to know:

 

[Bike from the Dead]

So Dad was given that Jockey Cycle to use however he saw fit, but there was another cool thing on wheels he also got that day: this Elgin (at least, that's what I think it is!) He had no idea what kind of bike it was (he's more into gas and oil memorabilia, along with classic cars,) so when he showed me a couple pics of it on his phone, I was blown away by what he obtained! I can tell that at least the fenders, chain guard, kickstand, and pedals aren't original to the bike, but the Elgin does seem to have the original wheels, chainring, seat post, truss rods and fork on it. I don't know if the seat, handlebars and handlebar stem are original to the bike, but they do look fairly old all things considered. I don't know if the paint is original, but it's very old and flaking off the frame. Amazingly, there's hardly any rust on this bike! It's practically just bare steel poking through the paint, and even the wheels look remarkably clean for their age! Even the tires, which have cracked in spots from sitting flat for years, still feel surprisingly soft in most places. This bike had to have been kept indoors for most of its life to be in this good of shape!

What we need help with on this bike is figuring out the year, manufacturer, what parts are original vs. what isn't, and how much it's worth.

This first batch of photos is in "as found" condition, with all the original dust left undisturbed aside from where it's been handled.

The head badge is missing, but I can just barely see where the head badge rivets would've gone. It looks like that area was painted over, so I can't tell if the paint's original, or an old repaint from decades ago.

Maybe it's just my eyes playing tricks on me, but it looks like the fork is bent back just a little. I cropped the picture below so the front of the headset is angled completely even with the sides of the picture, and the fork does appear bent back slightly. I think I could bend them back to the right angle, though, or at least get them close.

One more detail I'm skeptical of: I don't know if this is the result of manufacturing, or frame damage, but there's a slight dip at the front of the top tube just before it meets the headset. It doesn't look too bad, but I don't know. I'm not an expert on Elgins, as I've never been able to get my hands on one before.

For those who can't read it, the seat says "Lobdell Emery Made in U.S.A."

More pictures coming up next!

 

[Bike from the Dead]

After a quick dusting, I could really tell just how well this bike could clean up... aside from the paint. Some of it flaked off with almost no pressure from wiping the dust off. Still, just a quick dusting, and this bike wants to shine!

The kickstand's not right for this bike, I don't think, but it is pretty interesting. Anybody know what kind it's supposed to be?

Anyone know what's up with the "S" stamped onto the fork and bottom bracket?

There's a date, August 16th of 2001, marked on the seat post. I need to find out what the significance of that date means. Maybe that's when the fire museum acquired this bike?

I'm having a hard time reading the stamping under the bottom bracket. Looks like they didn't stamp it on right, based on how they seemed to have stamped it more than once. It looks like it's supposed to read "MOS T95504," but I'm not sure. Also, what's up with all the dots at the top?

The undersides of the fenders aren't even that rusty. I'm kind of impressed.

Even though the tires have hardened somewhat, they're honestly not in too bad of shape. If I just wanted to put them on a display bike, they'd probably look alright... outside of a few sidewall cracks, that is.

Seat's not too bad underneath either.

 

[RustyGold]

I would guess not much is original. I think Murrays of the era usually had mesinger branded seats...the chain guard doesn't look like a Murray I've seen... doesn't look to be primer under the paint, and no darts of any kind...has Elgin hubs but no Alemite fittings. What are the fenders made of?

There appears to be a letter missing from the serial, but is most likely a '38... definitely made by Murray.

 

[idiotboy]

It looks a lot like the bike I used for build off 12, general consensus was late 30s Murray built, mine also had Elgin hubs so I badged it as an Elgin

 

[deorman]

Murray produced these "Elgin" labeled bikes sold at Sears dept. stores, although there was an earlier company that sold bikes and sewing machines with that name.

 

[Bike from the Dead]

I would guess not much is original. I think Murrays of the era usually had mesinger branded seats...the chain guard doesn't look like a Murray I've seen... doesn't look to be primer under the paint, and no darts of any kind...has Elgin hubs but no Alemite fittings. What are the fenders made of?

There appears to be a letter missing from the serial, but is most likely a '38... definitely made by Murray.

Yeah, I figured about there weren't many original parts left on this bike. I'm sure the chain guard is aftermarket, probably purchased and installed the same as the fenders. They appear to be made of some sort of metal; possibly magnetic.

I tried sanding the paint off next to the serial number, but no other letters or numbers were hiding underneath. I'll take your word for it and say this is a '38.

 

[Bike from the Dead]

It looks a lot like the bike I used for build off 12, general consensus was late 30s Murray built, mine also had Elgin hubs so I badged it as an Elgin View attachment 188402

Sweet! Just looked up the build thread for it, and I like what you did with yours! I especially love the gusset you added to it! Yeah, yours looks pretty similar to mine, so I'm just going to take @RustyGold's word for it and say mine's a 1938 model. Odds are I'll just refer to mine as an Elgin too, even if it might technically not be one. It's got Elgin hubs that are probably as old as the frame, and the frame is at least similar to an Elgin, so why not?

 

[Bike from the Dead]

Okay, this took longer than I meant for it to, but here are some additional photos to help identify the "Elgin."

I take it these are those Alemite fittings I keep hearing about?

Here are a couple markings I found on the rear hub. "D" and "O." based on this manufacturer spec sheet someone on The Cabe shared, that means this hub was made in the 1st quarter of 1938. That, combined with @RustyGold's earlier comment about the bike's age, leads me to believe that at least the hubs (if not the complete wheels) are original to this frame.

This is the Patent number on the kickstand. I don't know much about this part, so if anyone is able to tell me what is means, please let me know.

I tried sanding off more of the paint under the bottom bracket to see if any other numbers or letters would show, but nothing else revealed itself.

 

[Bike from the Dead]

Also, just to put it out there, as I was replacing the tubes and tires so I could get this bike rolling, I made a few discoveries.

First, the inside of both the rims are clean! Whether these are the original hoops or not, like the rest of the bike, they're nearly rust-free! Shiny, even!

Next, I found this inside the back tire. It even still holds air! (I took it out and replaced it with a new tube, both to be safe and to preserve the original tube.)

Before I replaced the tires, I just wanted to see what they'd look like inflated. The rear tire is actually in really good shape, almost like new! It's still grippy, it has now cracks that I could find, it's still got the mold lines on the middle of the tread! The front tire is not in as good of shape as the rear tire, but it'd look alright on a display bike, I think.

 

[Phil Fink]

Might be a late-1937 frame, based on the serial number stamps.
1937 Elgin models (by Murray) are often stamped "MOS" (no "SB").
1938 Elgin models (by Murray) are often stamped "SC".
1939 Elgin models (by Murray) are often stamped "SD" (and curved seat tubes were introduced for some models).

 

[RustyGold]

Kickstand is a Jiffy Stand by Berry Cohen. More details in your find thread.

 

[Bike from the Dead]

Might be a late-1937 frame, based on the serial number stamps.
1937 Elgin models (by Murray) are often stamped "MOS" (no "SB").
1938 Elgin models (by Murray) are often stamped "SC".
1939 Elgin models (by Murray) are often stamped "SD" (and curved seat tubes were introduced for some models).

Okay, thanks! It seems like this bike is somewhere between a '37 and a '39 model, based on what everyone's told me so far. I'll run what you told me by the guys on The CABE as well, and see what they say. I'm a little out of my element here, as this is my first-ever prewar bike, so I don't know all the details that would help me identify this bike. If I could figure out the exact year this bike was manufactured, as well as whether or not it's actually an Elgin, that'd be great. Thanks for your help!

 

[Wildcat]

The fork does have a backward bend, and the truss rods are at an angle at the top bracket because of that. Where the bend is near the crown should be the spot you bend back, but with it's age, maybe it's best to leave it alone. If you don't mind how it rides a little funny, then I'd leave it. If you bend it back straight, then check it close for any cracks near the crown, especially where the lower bearings ride. The very slight bend in the top tube shouldn't make any difference, the angle looks good, it's the same as the seat tube angle.

I think they used the original hubs and re-laced them to newer rims. They did a good job, 4 cross pattern front and rear. I agree with you about the fenders and chain guard, replacements, but they look good. The frame looks like it was sanded down and repainted some time ago. The original color may show inside the head tube and/or crank housing. It looks good as is though.
Me, I would take off the fenders and chain guard and add a big set of whitewalls. But it's good as is.

 

[Bike from the Dead]

The fork does have a backward bend, and the truss rods are at an angle at the top bracket because of that. Where the bend is near the crown should be the spot you bend back, but with it's age, maybe it's best to leave it alone. If you don't mind how it rides a little funny, then I'd leave it. If you bend it back straight, then check it close for any cracks near the crown, especially where the lower bearings ride. The very slight bend in the top tube shouldn't make any difference, the angle looks good, it's the same as the seat tube angle.

I think they used the original hubs and re-laced them to newer rims. They did a good job, 4 cross pattern front and rear. I agree with you about the fenders and chain guard, replacements, but they look good. The frame looks like it was sanded down and repainted some time ago. The original color may show inside the head tube and/or crank housing. It looks good as is though.
Me, I would take off the fenders and chain guard and add a big set of whitewalls. But it's good as is.

Would pre-heating the fork at the spot I'd want to bend it reduce the risk of cracking? If not, I'd rather just replace the fork with one that isn't bent. I'm hoping that bend at the top tube could be tweaked, but as long as it's not too bad, I think I could live with it.

You might be right about the hubs and wheels. I might take the bike apart later and see what color's hiding inside, but for now, the bike's a rider. Not a good rider, but a rider none the less. In fact, I actually slapped it together a few weeks ago just like you suggested!

 

[Wildcat]

I forgot to mention about the kickstand. That one looks good but the bike would have been bought with a drop stand that attached to the holes in the dropouts. The lower part of the dropouts served as the stop for the stand.

 

[JA331]

Nice Elgin. I would replace the fork. I purchased one on ebay that looked just like yours although it was for a lady’s bike with the longer steerer tube. It cost me $60. I had to shorten the head tube and add thread. You can buy a die to do it or take it to a bike store. The shorter mens fork is harder to find.

I believe the Murray built Elgins of that era have the electro forged sections. Yours has them at the seat stays and head tube. The way the tubes look at the head tube are probably the way it was made, similar to many Schwinn bikes I have seen which used the same construction.

Very cool bike. I almost bought one a while back. Ride the wheels off that thing!

 

[deorman]

If there's no rocking in the bearings and the wheel is in line with the bike, I'd leave the fork alone.

 

[Bike from the Dead]

I forgot to mention about the kickstand. That one looks good but the bike would have been bought with a drop stand that attached to the holes in the dropouts. The lower part of the dropouts served as the stop for the stand.
View attachment 189324

I figured this bike might have come with a drop stand originally, although it appears the side stand it's got is about the same age as the frame, if not slightly older. I don't know if I'll have fenders on mine or not yet, so if I don't use those fenders, I'll either stick with the side stand, or I'll switch to one of those center-mounted drop stands.

 

[Bike from the Dead]

Nice Elgin. I would replace the fork. I purchased one on ebay that looked just like yours although it was for a lady’s bike with the longer steerer tube. It cost me $60. I had to shorten the head tube and add thread. You can buy a die to do it or take it to a bike store. The shorter mens fork is harder to find.

I believe the Murray built Elgins of that era have the electro forged sections. Yours has them at the seat stays and head tube. The way the tubes look at the head tube are probably the way it was made, similar to many Schwinn bikes I have seen which used the same construction.

Very cool bike. I almost bought one a while back. Ride the wheels off that thing!

Thank you! I had a fork for a woman's Elgin, but I sold it along with some other parts a year or two ago. I figured since I'm going to do more of a custom build rather than a restoration with this bike, I could just try using whatever forks I have instead of buying a new one. I've got plenty of Schwinn-style flat forks I could use, but at the same time, I have been thinking of using a springer fork. I just don't know what kind I'd like to use yet.

I'm hoping you're right about the assembly process. Given how the fork's bent back, I'm hoping that the frame wasn't bent as well. I'd also like to either install an original tank on this bike, or make my own. I'm just concerned that dip in the top tube won't cause any problems with that.

Thanks! That's the plan!