need ID help

[ChiknCoop]

my brother picked this up recently, he's a BMX guy and thought it might be a Schwinn but the serial number starts with a W. I snapped these two pics yesterday, it was the frame and forks when he bought it. No headbadge, two holes. Serial number on rear dropout is WO58057 bottom of the crank housing is 2474. No other marking that I can find, before the crank was installed incorrectly with the assistance of wheat pops there were no markings there. Considering the difference in the condition of the paint on the frame vs the front forks, he didn't think they were original to the bike but who knows.

 

[musclebikemadman]

That looks like it could be the correct fork. I was going to guess from frame Murray made something but they all kind of were very similar. The straight fender mount gives you something to work with if you can find other bike pics to look at. Also look to match the rear drop out shape. I would start looking at mid '60s Murray /Columbia,rollfast bikes. A lot of guys took there sixties and early '70s cruisers and made them into BMX once their buddy got one.

 

[Wildcat]

I don't recall seeing those dropouts before. They don't match up to Murray, Huffy, or Schwinn. And neither Evans, Monark, or Columbia. Not Rollfast, CWC, AMF or Shelby that I've seen. Usually the dropouts are a dead giveaway to the maker. The fender mount is unusual also. A pic of the other side of the frame and serial number might narrow it down. The previous owner may have modified those parts of the frame. The size of the tubing on the rear portion suggests 50's.
I'm pretty sure the fork is Murray, a rattrap springer, like those on Spaceliners. No other company made them as far as I know.

 

[ChiknCoop]

I don't recall seeing those dropouts before. They don't match up to Murray, Huffy, or Schwinn. And neither Evans, Monark, or Columbia. Not Rollfast, CWC, AMF or Shelby that I've seen. Usually the dropouts are a dead giveaway to the maker. The fender mount is unusual also. A pic of the other side of the frame and serial number might narrow it down. The previous owner may have modified those parts of the frame. The size of the tubing on the rear portion suggests 50's.
I'm pretty sure the fork is Murray, a rattrap springer, like those on Spaceliners. No other company made them as far as I know.

the serial number is WO58057 its on the left rear dropout, bottom of crank is 2474 I couldn't get a decent pic of it since it's so faint. It wouldn't stay in focus. Here are some pics of the serial numbers that are on the frame. I'd checked Scwhinn, Murray, Huffy already but no luck. I'll have to have my brother send me some pics of the other side.

 

[RustyGold]

I'm going to guess Huffy...70s vintage. It has the cantilever plugs for one thing. I think the rear dropouts look Huffy. The problems with my guess is that the serial number is inconsistent with a Huffy number (are you sure there isn't a number stamped on the headtube?). Badges on a 70s Huffy should be stickers...no screw holes needed.

My 2nd guess would be AMF as the dropouts are close and the serial number may be AMF plausible for a '70-72 number. Unfortunately, I can't find any pics of one on the 'net, and my AMF is a little too buried to get to anytime soon.

 

[ChiknCoop]

yes, positive on the no numbers on the head tube, and there are two holes where a head badge would be mounted on the headtube as well. I cant find anything that seems straightforward about identifying AMF serial numbers.

 

[Wildcat]

This is a challenging task. I'm still looking for a definite feature to match up. AMF had a unique dropout design along with others. The seat collar is an older style and with the welds/details it looks like a quality built frame.
The placement of the serial number also rules out a lot of manufacturers. They placed the numbers in certain spots and many times had a unique font or size to the digits. Huffy had an "H" near the beginning which made it easy. I haven't ever seen the number stamped on the lower part of the dropout. But it's a real number, probably showing it the 58057th frame they made that year. The W wouldn't be for the month, too far in progression. Maybe the manufacturer's ID or the market it was made for, W for western. That would be if it was made overseas. A manufacturer's name that begins with a "W"? I haven't found one. The following 0 might be the year, 1960 is my guess and it looks about that age.
The 4 numbers on the bottom may be a personal ID that was stamped by the owner.

 

[ChiknCoop]

This is a challenging task. I'm still looking for a definite feature to match up. AMF had a unique dropout design along with others. The seat collar is an older style and with the welds/details it looks like a quality built frame.
The placement of the serial number also rules out a lot of manufacturers. They placed the numbers in certain spots and many times had a unique font or size to the digits. Huffy had an "H" near the beginning which made it easy. I haven't ever seen the number stamped on the lower part of the dropout. But it's a real number, probably showing it the 58057th frame they made that year. The W wouldn't be for the month, too far in progression. Maybe the manufacturer's ID or the market it was made for, W for western. That would be if it was made overseas. A manufacturer's name that begins with a "W"? I haven't found one. The following 0 might be the year, 1960 is my guess and it looks about that age.
The 4 numbers on the bottom may be a personal ID that was stamped by the owner.

yeah, the location on the rear dropout is different from what I've seen on other bikes, and the bottom of the crank tube with only 4 digits, its either an assembly part number or personal ID. I'll be able to see the bike again next week in person, so i'm going to be taking more pics of it. I've seen 72 AMF's begin with a T previous years preceed in the alphabet, so if that sequencing is correct, it could be a 75? But I haven't been able to find any info online of a 75 AMF that has a W serial number much less a frame that's in this style.

 

[musclebikemadman]

Maybe

yeah, the location on the rear dropout is different from what I've seen on other bikes, and the bottom of the crank tube with only 4 digits, its either an assembly part number or personal ID. I'll be able to see the bike again next week in person, so i'm going to be taking more pics of it. I've seen 72 AMF's begin with a T previous years preceed in the alphabet, so if that sequencing is correct, it could be a 75? But I haven't been able to find any info online of a 75 AMF that has a W serial number much less a frame that's in this style.

a JC Higgins, this is the 1963 that I have. I have it in storage next time I'm there I can get a better pic if need be.

 

[RustyGold]

That Higgins is Columbia built. Columbia had those L shaped dropouts...the bike above doesn't.

The sprocket on the bike in question is asian...but I don't think it is original to the frame. I can't recall any asian frames of that era having the smashed tube dropout connection...I think that is primarily an American trait...just like those cantilever caps are primarily a huffy trait...though, I think I've seen them on early german imports.

 

[Wildcat]

That's a 1961 bike with the K serial number. It's a Columbia made Higgins. Nice bike!

My AMF serial number list only goes to N - 1963, but going in progression would put a W number around the early 70's. However, AMF wasn't making frames with the level of quality as yours so that's not an AMF.

I'm still researching.

 

[Wildcat]

After doing more hunting around, I'm leaning toward Huffy, late 50's early 60's.

This bike is from a thread here a few years ago by FreddyS:
https://ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/1960s-huffy-galaxie.106122/The holes in the dropouts aren't in the exact same place but the shape of the dropouts and the size of the fender mounts look the same.

This bike didn't have it's number listed so I'm not sure of the year, but it was late 50's or early 60's Huffy because of the chain guard and chain wheel.

 

[RustyGold]

Found this on thecabe....

...on this thread...

JC Higgins Mainliner

Which probably means the frame is from a 1960 Huffy built Western Flyer. I didn't know about the W (or the S) serials...cool stuff!

 

[RustyGold]

I was really banking on that four digit code under the BB being a date stamp...which is why I was looking in the 70s. I should have went with the obvious, the badge holes, and went earlier.

 

[Wildcat]

That's it! Good hunting by RustyGold.

Next question, Did they make the rat trap springers in 1960?

 

[RustyGold]

I think '58 was the first year for rat trap springers, but they are exclusive to Murray to the best of my knowledge.

 

[ChiknCoop]

so the concensus is 1960 Huffy built by Western Flyer?

 

[musclebikemadman]

so the concensus is 1960 Huffy built by Western Flyer?

You mean Western Flyer by Huffy

 

[Wildcat]

Concur!

 

[ChiknCoop]

thanks everyone.