Need some help identifying a 1953 Schwinn...?

[whiskyginger]

Recently I came across this real beauty. Not sure what model it is though, even after some research. Based on the serial number it was produced in Feb 1953. It resembles somewhat of the wasp or typhoon even, but if you notice near the straight bar and head tube (circled in photos), it is smaller than anything I find close to resembling the model. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

the bike in question:

similar examples, notice the frames:

 

[B607]

I'd say that's a typical straight bar Hornet. Nice old bike. Gary

 

[kingsting]

Must be the small frame version that's it's different from the others pictured.

 

[whiskyginger]

@B607 - thanks for the quick response!
@kingsting - must be. confused as to why i haven't found any other models with this small tube setup. but oh well. thanks for the comment!

 

[Jpromo]

It's your lucky day--your bike isn't a '53. I'm going to guess your serial is under the bottom bracket and reads Hxxxxx? I'd place it as a 1941 short frame. You won't find many examples of a short frame for reference. Unless it's a 24" bike. What is the wheel size?

It's hard to distinguish much with the picture, but look at the joint of the seat tube and seat stays; your tubes all meet in one smooth joint, whereas postwar frames remain two distinct tubes that are fixed to the seat tube. Also, it's hard to see in your picture, but the dropouts are horizontal with axle adjusters, versus the postwar fish hook looking dropouts. The kickstand is a bolt-on. I'll guess the seat clamp is braised to the seat tube instead of a separate piece? Likely had the wheels and chainring swapped from a later 50s Schwinn.

 

[whiskyginger]

@Jpromo interesting. i was judging the year based on these sites (Serial # h69015):
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/SchwinnCodes3.html
http://schwinncruisers.com/schwinn.php?serial=h69015

Though your comments are correct. The s# was under the bottom bracket. It has 26" wheel size. The seat joint/clamp is fixed with the frame and seat tube, not a separate piece like you see in the sample photos. I didn't even notice the drop outs, nice catch!

Perhaps this isn't an all original bike.

 

[Jpromo]

Schwinn records before 1948 were lost in a fire. Your frame is definitely prewar based on the things I mentioned. 1941 used an H serial with 5 digits under the bottom bracket. It looks like your frame, forks, fenders, and truss rods are original.

It likely would have originally had a skiptooth drivetrain and if somebody refurbished the bike in the 60s or 70s, it's very possible they took the wheels and crank from a 50s Schwinn to be able to use a standard chain. Easy to put correct or leave it and only people like me will ever raise an eyebrow at it

Take a measurement of the seat tube that I've lined in red from center of bottom bracket to center of top tube. A short frame should measure 16". If it's 18", then I'm stumped.

 

[whiskyginger]

@Jpromo you nailed it. i measured the seat tube and it is 16". Also took notice to the few other areas you had pointed out.

thanks for all the feedback. definitely learned a thing or two!

 

[Jpromo]

@Jpromo you nailed it. i measured the seat tube and it is 16". Also took notice to the few other areas you had pointed out.

Alright, so I was unsatisfied with my answer as I still had not found a reference image of a prewar small frame. Dug more and found one. It appears that the short frame has the same geometry as the standard frame, but the seat tube is merely cut down, with a seat binder in the seat stays like a Westfield bike, not extending the two inches above like your frame is. This makes your frame a standard 18". Different manufacturers used different standards for frame measurement, thus my uncertainty on the measuring point.

This left me facing a Pyrrhic victory. So I kept digging and came up with a hit on a Schwinn C-Model which was a straighbar frame that was different from the standard prewar straightbar B-model seen on Autocycles and others. But most C-model frames had the same spacing gap from the headtube back. But that's because the C-model most commonly turns up 36-39 with a straight downtube. What I'm seeing is that the late C frames with the curved downtube from '40-41 has the same joint that yours does. I'm done talking; here's a bike with your exact frame I found: http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?39876-WTT-Prewar-Schwinn-built-Mead-Crusader-C-Model

This frame isn't even featured in the '40 or '41 catalogs because it was so 1938. It was likely sold predominately as a low optioned bike, "last years model" kind of thing. Which makes the one pictured very surprising and may have only been a Mead thing to be fully decked out.

 

[B607]

It's your lucky day--your bike isn't a '53. I'm going to guess your serial is under the bottom bracket and reads Hxxxxx? I'd place it as a 1941 short frame.

Good catch Jpromo. I didn't even notice the dropouts and Miller kickstand in that far away pic. 1941 was a huge production year for Schwinn. With the war on the horizon, they knew they would be making war materiel instead of bikes so they cranked out everything they could before the changeover. Don't forget the '41 "I" serial numbers too. Another 20 or 30 thousand bikes added to the "H" bikes. Gary

 

[whiskyginger]

thanks @Jpromo for all the information. I was right there with you trying to research some reference photos, but had no luck. I'm going to snap some better photos of this bike, and see if there are any other recognition marks (badges, symbols, etc) that can assist with your findings. I'll repost any findings shortly.

 

[ifitsfreeitsforme]

I am always in awe of you guys and your vintage bike knowledge.

 

[whiskyginger]

@Jpromo - some better photos (and replaced tires and chain)

 

[B607]

Measure your frame. From the center of the BB to the top of the seat post. It almost looks like it could be a 20" instead of 18". Probably just the camera angle. The neck is a Wald No.5, which Schwinn used on a lot of bikes in '41. Gary

 

[Wildcat]

That's a great bike, and a lot of great info also! The license plate sets it off nicely. Maybe from when it was new.

 

[whiskyginger]

@B607 I measured from the top of the BB to the very. top of the seat post, seemed to be more 20 inches.

Depending where to cut off the measurement, it appeared 18 when measuring to where the seat brackets.

 

[B607]

If it's a 20" frame, it's even more valuable. A normal 18" prewar boys frame would have a short head tube, shorter than a girl's frame. That bike has the same head tube as a prewar girl's frame. I think it almost has to be a 20" frame because of the head tube.

The more I look at the bike the more I like it. I wish you lived closer, we'd do some trading! I think those are the original grips. '41 was the first year of the early oval Schwinn marked grips. Gary

 

[Wildcat]

That would explain why the straight bar is closer to the head tube than the normal frame. I think that is an oversize frame, maybe special request from the factory? I never heard of a larger frame being offered back then. The frame measurement is from the center of the bottom bracket (where the crank arm would be) to top of the seat tube, so I think you have a 20" frame.