New Departure Model "D" Axle Nuts

[hotfoot]

Anybody know what nuts I need? I know they're 3/8", but what thread pitch? Regular fine thread doesn't work, and it doesn't help that when I got it somebody had jammed the wrong size nuts on there, which messed up the threads a bit. I'm beginning to think it's some odd size. I even bought a brand new 3/8" X 26 axle to hopefully just replace the dang thing, but the internals wouldn't thread onto it.

At least I can rebuild the dang thing in my sleep though, I've had it apart/back together 4+ times...

 

[sensor]

#24 pitch but...theyre not 3/8"(should be 5/16" if i recall right)
good luck

 

[BankerRAt]

yes #24. I measured mine

 

[tikiharl]

I just dropped off a wheel w/ New Departure "D"hub today at local LBS. The mech and I were talking for awhile about old bikes and the last thing he says to me is "don't ever loose the axle nuts off of that wheel".He told me they were not standard or metric if he remembered right.He thought it was something they made just for New Departure.

 

[hotfoot]

I've got some 24 threads/inch nuts, and it's definately not them, they eat up the threads. And I'm sure the axle size is 3/8, as that's what the New Departure service manual says, but they conveniently list the axle nuts as "3/8 axle nuts." I've just about exhausted all of the bike shops in town looking for them, I'm going to start hitting up some high end hardware specialty stores and see what they think, I'll let you guys know what I find.

 

[hotfoot]

I just found this thread with a lot of info, apparently the threads were cut in house and are a different depth than others. And haven't been made since the hub was made.

I don't know if I'm allowed to link to other forum sites, but this is a pretty good read and provided some good info:

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3222

And I found this too:

"Here is the skinny. The axle is a 24 thread count. However, where a 3/8 x 24 bolt is at .366 diameter ( 9.29 mm ), the New Departure axle is slightly bigger at 371 ( 9.46 mm. ) You could chase it with a 3/8 x 24 die, but then your clutch cone and other cones would fit loose. I wouldn't doubt that New Departure had their own axle and nut machines. Schwinn did! I guess the industry wasn't completely standardized back then. New Departure made a lot of axle assemblies! You should be able to find a nut pretty easily!"

Sooo...anybody got some extra ND axle nuts? :roll:

When I got this thing it had about 8 washers on either side of the frame, and two nuts jammed onto the ends (which gummed up the threads a fair amount) and I couldn't figure out why, now I know!

 

[hotfoot]

Wow, to reply a third time to my own post, I found a solution.

Get a 3/8 X 24 die and run it down the axle about half way down each side. That way the threads on the outer halves of the axle will work with the modern 3/8 X 24 nuts, while the internal threads will still have the deeper cut so the cone nuts will fit snugly.

Phew. Thanks for the advice everyone, guess I should have done my homework first!

 

[blink]

dang, thats why i cant get nuts on mine!

 

[B607]

I wouldn't doubt that New Departure had their own axle and nut machines. Schwinn did!

Those "axle and nut machines" have a name. They're called automatic screw machines, or "automatics" for short. I ran Brown and Sharpe screw machines where I worked. They are among the most amazing machines you've ever seen for making things out of bar stock. (rod) Schwinn had 8 Economatic screw machines, serial #'s 9-16. Serial #'s 1-8 were owned by General Motors. When WW2 broke out, Schwinns 8 screw machines were dedicated to making brass cases for anti-aircraft ammo.
There's a good chance your nuts and axles were made on one of these... Gary

 

[hotfoot]

FYI, cutting the threads down with a 3/8 X 24 die works!

I'm about to go rebuild the sucker right now!

Cool info on the screw machines, those things are beastly.

 

[Phil Fink]

A google search of 3/8-24 UNF oversize threads yielded tools and information for tapping oversize "H" threads.
From the CABE thread, mentioned before, (new link):
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/new-departure-axle-nuts.3222/

the difference that one measured was 0.371" - 0.366" = 0.005" which might relate to "H10" threads (0.0045" to 0.0050" oversize),
or H11 (0.0050" to 0.0055" oversize). [That's 0.0005" max. per H-number].

If one can find the oversize axle nuts custom-made at a reasonable price from a machinist, I would advise getting those, rather than trying to make a few by oneself.