New Lairdframe is done

[bunnyman666]

No dates on when she’s coming, but she’s on the ‘gram:

 

[bunnyman666]

Mid-build:

 

[horsefarmer]

Look at that seatpost!

 

[bunnyman666]

Look at that seatpost!

On purpose. That Basset clamp looks sweet!

 

[bunnyman666]

Over all, I kinda felt like I didn’t get my money’s worth on this frame. And I think I would be told to pound sand if I complain. Mike is a “my way; no highway option” kind of fellow. I can respect that. He stopped answering most emails, but was certain to tell me that when I was considering a mid school 20” frame and I wanted to reserve the build number “666”, that he would not reserve the number. Would not discuss any other aspect of the future build. So, no more builds for me.

The seat stay art got in the way of a fat tyre, the bike wasn’t really as custom as I hoped (as he didn’t really take into consideration the old and mid school components for some features that I made certain to mention) and he forgot the water bottle bosses I had asked for. The chain tensioners are a joke; they won’t work on a TuffWheel with a freewheel. Is it a total disaster? Of course not. I got the dimensions I asked for. He builds one hell of a bike frame. His welds are pure art. Just the drivetrain is a bit weird and I had to file a brand new frame to build in tyre clearance. I did spec to fit the largest tyres out there. I was able to run a 39 tooth chain wheel. His build quality is second to none as far as the thoughtfulness of all the little details, but I was left a bit cold, especially now that I have a pair of lime green Tuff Wheels that are going to be great display pieces. Maybe I order the next round of Skyway TA 24” frames.

If you want BMX that is going to be one of the most well-built frames in the business and use modern standards, Mike is your guy. Anything else? There are other options out there.

 

[bunnyman666]

I am giving up on Hookworms. I could get the rear to take one, but the fork just wouldn’t clear; literally off by millimeters. I am not going to rig up something dangerous in the fork ends to run the tyre, and I am certainly not buying a new fork. I am running a Haro Group 1. May experiment with a 2.5 Hookworm back/2.1 front. Also will change the chain to a half-link.
Still sore about the chain tensioners literally being a waste of $25 and no water bottle bosses; he did become hard to deal with, so I am not bothering to complain. Instead I will kvetch a bit more until I feel better.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Dang, the whole point of a custom frame is to get what you want

 

[bunnyman666]

Dang, the whole point of a custom frame is to get what you want

Yep.

Like I said- not a total loss. It fits great.

I think I found that he is custom *IF* it fits with modern BMX parts. He knows geometry. He did my +10” seat tube. He did make certain a 39 tooth chain wheel fits. But I thought a tyre as big as a Hookworm would fit.

And when I say he fabricates like no other, it’s the truth. No cleaner welds have I seen. Nothing funky.

I think I really wanted a Fireman’s Cruiser made for 24” wheels; of course they still haven’t resumed building.

And to clarify: Laird doesn’t make forks or handlebars. That is a Sunday fork.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Maybe there is a certain appeal to his attitude too. The artist not willing to compromise is part of the brand.
My 24 is a track bike. No way I could run a post like that! But for the street, what better excuse not to have to lend your bike?
"It's not your size, it's MY size!" Lol

 

[bunnyman666]

Maybe there is a certain appeal to his attitude too. The artist not willing to compromise is part of the brand.
My 24 is a track bike. No way I could run a post like that! But for the street, what better excuse not to have to lend your bike?
"It's not your size, it's MY size!" Lol

Sure. He was a pro rider who properly learned how to work metal.
He said he’d put the water bottle bosses on the back of the seat tube and didn’t. And I explained that I was using old school Tuffwheels. I didn’t even know that I could get a 9 tooth driver hub on a 20” Tuff 2 until a few weeks ago! But no 9 tooth driver for a 24”. Again- he makes this big deal about making 8 frames per month, but it was essentially once he got your order and your money, you shut the heck up.
I feel a bit petty over some of my niggles, but the communication became sparse. Half of my concerns were never addressed and that’s how I ended up with a frame I am underwhelmed with. He really didn’t take into consideration old, mid, or new school. If he would’ve said “here’s the deal- I build modern BMX for modern parts. If you want to do more old school, here is your money back and a list of people that will make it for you”, I would have respected him more.

I had the tube extended like that because that is how long my seat extension is on my Redline. I did add about 2” to the top tube and two inches to the rear triangle. Like I said- he got THAT part right. It fits GREAT! I guess I can make a seat-mounted water bottle holder.

I will get over these things. It’s just not a home run, and he wasn’t cheap. I know the probability of disappointment in a custom build is likely. I have had much worse custom frame builds that had horrendous chain rub when huffing it up a hill. There are a lot of potential disappointments in anything custom. I had a horrible set of custom goalie pads that just didn’t do it for me. I think as far as fit goes, it’s perfect; I just have to learn to live with some not great bits.

 

[bunnyman666]

I could pop a couple Rivnuts into my bike frame...

Hmmmm...

 

[horsefarmer]

Beautiful bike and paint! Sorry things are not going to be like you envisioned. Really should of been given money spent.

The frame builder took a beautiful pic of the finished frame and I assume he is proud of his work. So what went wrong?

Hindsight is always 20-20 but I'm thinking maybe make your wheel and tire selections, assemble them and give the frame builder the dimensions (if not the assemblies for mock up) next time. Provide a clear sketch at least of what you want, Especially for such a custom job as this.

Might of forgotten the water bottle bosses, but looking at a simple sketch might of prevented it getting painted till he added them.

I was a machinist and draftsman for years and I'm telling you pictures and exact clear dimensions and specifications are important!

Many times when designing I'd request engineering samples to help with mocking up the design. Just trying to eliminate errors and make everyone happy.

 

[bunnyman666]

Beautiful bike and paint! Sorry things are not going to be like you envisioned. Really should of been given money spent.

The frame builder took a beautiful pic of the finished frame and I assume he is proud of his work. So what went wrong?

Hindsight is always 20-20 but I'm thinking maybe make your wheel and tire selections, assemble them and give the frame builder the dimensions (if not the assemblies for mock up) next time. Provide a clear sketch at least of what you want, Especially for such a custom job as this.

Might of forgotten the water bottle bosses, but looking at a simple sketch might of prevented it getting painted till he added them.

I was a machinist and draftsman for years and I'm telling you pictures and exact clear dimensions and specifications are important!

Many times when designing I'd request engineering samples to help with mocking up the design. Just trying to eliminate errors and make everyone happy.

Next time, these will be steps I take.

He didn’t finalise anything and started ignoring emails. Like I said- not another frame from this dude.

 

[furyus]

I bought a Lairdframe about a year ago and made multiple changes mid-stream. Always got a response from Mike Laird. I would buy another frame from him despite the cost and the wait.

 

[bunnyman666]

I bought a Lairdframe about a year ago and made multiple changes mid-stream. Always got a response from Mike Laird. I would buy another frame from him despite the cost and the wait.

I am glad it worked out for you.

Again- i know that I have a quality frame set. Build quality isn’t a question, and he did my +10” seat tube and extended stays. I was able to use a 39 tooth chain wheel. It came down to my wheels, in the end. I was gutted to be filing stuff and the built-in chain tensioners ended up being a big part of the problem. I didn’t even make changes so much; I just wanted to make certain the parts I was going to use were going to work. Again- I am compromising with 2.1” tyres.

The wait did not bother me. He was upfront about the wait time. But wanting the full amount upfront was something that did bother me. But I did it. His pitch, his rules.

My biggest beef is that the wheel and tyre combinations I wanted to use aren’t working from out of the box and that the built-in chain tensioners are worthless. The fork is not a Laird product. The dropouts should be longer for those of us who aren’t going to run the 9 tooth driver hub. His template is set up for modern components, period. I can respect that if he would have said it up front.

Bottom line: I would not hesitate to recommend Laird for a very custom fit for anything running modern components. A few hundred over the Haro and GT that I spend would have been well-worth it. The GT frame in particular had some QC funkiness, but it was a Black Friday cutie. I would have been gutted had I spent full freight and waited for it!

I may feel differently later about future purchases. I have never seen such clean welds on a frame. He does do BEAUTIFUL work.

 

[bunnyman666]

It looks like the tyres I am using are Kenda 24x 2.1. Even though the Hookworm looks pretty nasty in the back, it won’t work in the front. I may just switch to the Haro/Kenda in the front and run the Hookworm for flat resistance. I dunno. I could run both Haro/Kenda tyres and be able to use the pair of Tuffwheels. Decisions decisions...

 

[bear bear]

looks great! i say tuffwheels

 

[bunnyman666]

Got the Tuffs on, however:
1) I got the wheel to the front of the drop outs. I used a half link. That was fun! The tyre I chose (Haro Group 1) rubs the rear brake (grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!)
2) functional chain tensioners would have been nice, as I had to go to draconian measures to keep the wheel centred in the drop outs
3) this powder chips like a mofo; it will be re-powdered next year
4) taking the fork to a drill press, drilling a hole for a U-brake boomerang. Front brakes on this dude!
5) It rides great; Mike hit it out of the park on my geometry. Feels like a stable, nearly ponderous cruiser.