Prewar Excelsior (Or Elgin?) Motobike.

[toro1978]

Love the new tires!

Street King tires 26x2,125, I have them on a bike and while not very good on tarmac they are awesome on dirt roads!

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

What is the serial #? This frame is either a DPHarris or Westfield-made Elgin. The seat-stays give it away. Schwinn did not have flush/butted joints at the BB shell, nor did they have straight seat stays above the rear fender brace to the seat tube, but were curved. The BB connections to all tubes were smooth and round on the schwinn frames. Snap a picture of your serial number on your BB and we can determine what it really is.
Below is my late 30's elgin frame built up I posted earlier, which is what I think this is....

 

[MazdaFlyer]

I noticed this thread is active again. When I have time to review the previous and later comments I’ll make a reply. I do appreciate the input and comments. Some mystery here worth further analysis.
Thinking this might become a Build Off #14 candidate.


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[MazdaFlyer]

I found the photo I’d taken of the Serial # and a couple of as found pics.

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[MazdaFlyer]

Your ~5" Schwinn head tube and frame parts look true Schwinn Chicago IL built; it has 1" truss bar, typical with Schwinn, (not a reduced diameter). Your bike does not look like a Snyder Mfg. or Excelsior Mfg. Michigan City IND, (bought-out by Snyder in early 1930's). It is sometimes interesting to compare different makes.

My older Schwinn built Meads have the 6-digit serial numbers. My older Excelsior builts have 5-digit & low 6-digit serial numbers. My older Snyder bikes have a letter followed by 5 digits; 26" balloon tires having a "D" (Little Falls? 1934?); "W" (Michigan City? 1935-36?); "Y" (Michigan City? 1937-38?); 28" with an "A" (Little Falls? 1931?).

What is the serial #? This frame is either a DPHarris or Westfield-made Elgin. The seat-stays give it away. Schwinn did not have flush/butted joints at the BB shell, nor did they have straight seat stays above the rear fender brace to the seat tube, but were curved. The BB connections to all tubes were smooth and round on the schwinn frames. Snap a picture of your serial number on your BB and we can determine what it really is.
Below is my late 30's elgin frame built up I posted earlier, which is what I think this is....
View attachment 88828
View attachment 88829

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Thanks for the info and opinions from both of you. In regards to previous comments, the head tube is roughly 4” long and the (truss bar?) is smaller OD than top tube. 1.20” versus 0.875 or so. The serial number is a 5 digit number...so what is the verdict now.
Hear is a shot of the Serial #.

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[TroutFishingInAmerica]

Your ~5" Schwinn head tube and frame parts look true Schwinn Chicago IL built; it has 1" truss bar, typical with Schwinn, (not a reduced diameter). Your bike does not look like a Snyder Mfg. or Excelsior Mfg. Michigan City IND, (bought-out by Snyder in early 1930's). It is sometimes interesting to compare different makes.

My older Schwinn built Meads have the 6-digit serial numbers. My older Excelsior builts have 5-digit & low 6-digit serial numbers. My older Snyder bikes have a letter followed by 5 digits; 26" balloon tires having a "D" (Little Falls? 1934?); "W" (Michigan City? 1935-36?); "Y" (Michigan City? 1937-38?); 28" with an "A" (Little Falls? 1931?).[/QUOTEGood info. You have been in this game longer then me obviously, and your knowledge is much appreciated. Thank You.

 

[MazdaFlyer]

So do I have a DP Harris or Westfield built frame?

The headbadge holes matched the Excelsior spacing.

Im getting mixed opinions on the manufacturer origin. I guess I need to measure my Elgin badge hole spacing.


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[Phil Fink]

Well, as you originally posted, your bike is most likely a 1933 Excelsior, built by the Excelsior Manufacturing Co. of Michigan City Indiana.

Another company, Arnold & Somebody, once bought the Excelsior Supply Co. (Chicago) in order to get into the motorcycle business - that is when the Excelsior Cycle Co. was separated and moved to Indiana ~1916. However, A&S also used the "Excelsior" product name which causes some confusion, (to me anyways).

Thank you for posting the C-prefix serial number; I am not sure if the bike is one of the last Excelsior bikes prior to the Snyder Manufacturing Co. buying the plant, but the frame has the usual Snyder features.
The Excelsior Cycle Co. changed its name and was bought by Snyder in the 1930's, but I am not sure exactly when, or if both name and ownership changes occurred gradually or at the same time, (too coincidental?).

The C = 1933 fits my theory for Snyder bikes, and also suggests that I might reverse or abandon any assumptions I have about the codes reflecting the alternate locations; (i.e., A,B,C,D looks more like the Excelsior plant; W,X,Y,Z may then be the other Little Falls plant).

For Westfield bikes, one of the 1st things that I look for is a slabbed or slotted bolt for the seat post clamp; (a regular bolt would interfere with the post).

 

[MazdaFlyer]

Well, as you originally posted, your bike is most likely a 1933 Excelsior, built by the Excelsior Manufacturing Co. of Michigan City Indiana.

Another company, Arnold & Somebody, once bought the Excelsior Supply Co. (Chicago) in order to get into the motorcycle business - that is when the Excelsior Cycle Co. was separated and moved to Indiana ~1916. However, A&S also used the "Excelsior" product name which causes some confusion, (to me anyways).

Thank you for posting the C-prefix serial number; I am not sure if the bike is one of the last Excelsior bikes prior to the Snyder Manufacturing Co. buying the plant, but the frame has the usual Snyder features.
The Excelsior Cycle Co. changed its name and was bought by Snyder in the 1930's, but I am not sure exactly when, or if both name and ownership changes occurred gradually or at the same time, (too coincidental?).

The C = 1933 fits my theory for Snyder bikes, and also suggests that I might reverse or abandon any assumptions I have about the codes reflecting the alternate locations; (i.e., A,B,C,D looks more like the Excelsior plant; W,X,Y,Z may then be the other Little Falls plant).

For Westfield bikes, one of the 1st things that I look for is a slabbed or slotted bolt for the seat post clamp; (a regular bolt would interfere with the post).

Thanks Phil. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and information.

The Excelsior headbadge hole spacing on my bike is 2.875”, I believe the older Elgin badge is much less. The later Elgin “V” badges are 2.625”.

If anyone has actual Excelsior or Snyder serial number charts I’d be interested in seeing them. I realize this old stuff is a crap shoot in many cases.


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[MazdaFlyer]

I spent some time with the pancake horn this morning. I put together a 6V battery pack. With a micro switch, some low voltage wire and a couple of alligator clips I was able to wakeup the horn.
By adjusting the diaphragm screw I was able to zero in on a decent sound. It’s not real loud but functional for a bike path bike.
I think I have some vintage style wire to wire up a more complete operation. I need to find a momentary on/off switch. The battery pack can mount in the tank.


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[MazdaFlyer]

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[MazdaFlyer]

 

[MazdaFlyer]

I spent some time with the pancake horn this morning. I put together a 6V battery pack. With a micro switch, some low voltage wire and a couple of alligator clips I was able to wakeup the horn.
By adjusting the diaphragm screw I was able to zero in on a decent sound. It’s not real loud but functional for a bike path bike.
I think I have some vintage style wire to wire up a more complete operation. I need to find a momentary on/off switch. The battery pack can mount in the tank.


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Well I put these comment replies in the wrong thread. I meant to put them in my Pancake Horn Mounting Bracket Build thread. Dementia around the corner, hope not.


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[SILVERKINGPC]

Good pics of frame details and serial number seem to say not Elgin. P.Fink looks to be pretty close to the identification. Basic Motobike style frames were made by most makers in the late teens through the 30's and are difficult to id w/o badge. The badge screw hole distance is the big clue with the serial number..