Savage... Need help identifying

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Found this today behind an old gas station in northern Cal. The station was closed so I couldn't ask if they were willing to part with it (I'm going back Monday morning!). It looks pretty straight. Check out the head tube badge. Its a full dress indian head and appears to say "Savage" under it. Can anyone tell me what this bike is and approximate year. I'm sure the apes were an after thought at some point. Thanks.
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Re: Found this.... SAVAGE ?

Critter1 said:
deorman said:
Could it be from the gunmaker? :?
what's that?


savage arms. they make rifles.

a bunch of machine companies that made rifles/fire arms later made bicycles or motorcyles.
 
Re: Found this.... SAVAGE ?

the forks and frame, kinda look huffy or at least a bike that was built by huffy and sold under a different name, like hiawatha (but im sure its just the headdress making me think that). without a better look at the chainring of the driveside, that is about as good of guess as i got. whatever it is, nice find and i hope you end up getting it. good luck. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Found this.... SAVAGE ?

I didn't make it back up to that "Q"uaint little town. I'm going up there on the last Friday of this month. Hey thats my birthday!!! Oh now I'm sure I'll talk my way into owning it. :lol:
 
Re: SAVAGE - its mine now!

We had to head back up to Quincy a couple of weeks sooner than expected. The first stop we made was at the little old gas station where I first saw this bike stacked up against a pile of tires surrounded by wasps nests. The little old couple that run the place were sitting inside when I walked up. Funny thing is, they looked at me like I was crazy before I even opened my mouth. We got to talking and I asked about the old bike out back. His eyes lit up and he said, "I've had that thing for over 50 years. I bought it for my daughter when she was going to UC Davis. She rode it for a few years until she bought a car, then had no use for it. Its been sitting out back for nearly 35 years." We chatted some more and eventually some cash exchanged hands and it was mine. He didn't know much about the bike and said it was used when he bought it. He was happy to see it go, and asked if I fix it up real nice, would I bring it by to show him. Of course I told him I'd be happy to.
My plan is to fix it up for my girlfriend. Although the skip tooth set up might find its way onto one of my other projects :mrgreen: .

We were driving the Honda, so I had to do a little curb side tear down. Fit like a glove :roll:
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Once I got it home, I put it back together to snap some good pictures:
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Blacked out New Departure front hub.
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Bendix rear hub. The rims are mismatched, so I'm not sure which one would be original to the bike.....?
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Rusted stiff skip tooth.
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The pedals have a "crown" symbol on the end caps.
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After getting through 4 layers of paint, I revealed some numbers: 04-EH 99769. I'm definitely going to need some help identifying this thing!!
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Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

no clue on the serial number but its columbia built if that bb setup is original. the cup gaurds are tell tale signs of a columbia.
 
Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

The rear triangle and fork crown look very much to me like those of an H.P. Snyder made bike. Some clear and up close pictures of the fork crown would be very helpful. The down tubes of the frame are odd- they do look like those on some Huffy bikes I've seen, though I think some Snyder made bikes had the particular down tubes like that too.

Similar to this Huffy I owned, but certainly not identical. The rear upper fender stay/crossmember is different, as are the dropouts, and I think the lower rear stays too. I'd be more likely to call it Snyder made.

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Edit: If I remember correctly, that's a Snyder chainring, too. I think I had the standard version on my Snyder made Hawthorne cruiser before I replaced it with the current ring.
 
Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

Hi

Your bike was manufactured by the H.P. Snyder Manufacturing Company. The bicycles they produced most often turn up branded as Montgomery Ward Hawthornes but were also distributed under many other guises by D.P. Harris. The Harris house brand was Rollfast but they produced several other badged lines including Savage.

The Rollfast book, available at:

http://www.classicbicyclenews.com/literature.html

Has several catalog pages that depict your frame.

As for dating the bike, that frame was produced with small variations from 1936 through early 1942. I’m sure that Snyder serial numbers follow some pattern (or patterns, there seem to be several) but it is not one that is easy to decode. The style of serial number you have appears on models that were made in 1940-1942 and my hunch is that the 04 in the second line may be 40 backwards.

The crank on the bike was used on the basic models at that time and the dustcovers on the bottom bracket and headset were introduced by Snyder in 1939-40, before anyone else was using them.

The fork on your bike is badly damaged and it looks like most of the deformation is in a confined area just below the fork crown. This sort of damage is not uncommon for Snyder quadriplate forks and is probably impossible to repair with that much metal stretch in such a small area. If you are able to get it bent back to something approaching the original geometry I would be wary of riding it because of metal fatigue. Fortunately these forks are relatively common but it is hard to find one without any damage.
 
Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

Unchained, rms37, and stretch-
Thank you so much for your replies. Its a huge help! Now I have something to go on and research.

Does the "crown" on the pedals have any significance? Name?

The hubs? Which do you think is correct for the bike? Were bike produced with mismatched hubs like that?

Thanks again!!
 
Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

well, im thinking a bike like that would come with the bendix rear, and probably a blank front.
 
Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

its called a blackout hub, i think they did it to save money during the war, so they dont have to spend money on chroming and polishing and whatnot. so yes, from the same era.
 
Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

Both the hubs are newer than the frame, the black-out hubs were produced during WW2 (probably beginning during early to mid 1942) because of wartime material rationing that made chrome plating unavailable where it could be replaced with other finishes.

The black-out industrial finish used on the hub is referred to as Parkerizing and is applied in a chemical process more like galvanizing than painting.

The Bendix hub was not produced or available until after WW2. As the frame probably dates to 1940-41 it is earlier than either of the hubs on it at this time. The fenders, fender braces, and the pedals are also all newer the frame itself.
 
Re: SAVAGE - Need help identifying...

Based on the excellent info you guys posted here, I was abled to find a 1939 Montgomery Wards catalog that show this frame style sold as a Hawthorne. Pretty cool.
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Here is a Hawthorne that was listed on Ebay. Similar frame with the same drop outs, but only one cross bar between the top and bottom frame tube. It has different fork style too.
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