Sturmey Archer B2C vs Sachs Torpedo Duomatic

[The Black Monark]

Been a fan of Sachs hubs for a long time, the Duomatic (kicker) being probably my favorite hub for distance/speed. People ask me about them on rides sometimes, but since they're out of production I wanted to try the S2C so I could suggest it or not, so the other day I built a SA S2C into a wheel:
Rolling resistance seems pretty low, some folks don't care for the clicking sound but it doesn't really bother me much.
The shift and brake points are much closer to the drive than on the Duomatic which is kind of nice.
The brake action is decent, seems on par with the Duomatic.
The one thing I'm not sure about happens when pedaling forward. Setting the bike up in the stand, bottom bracket adjusted, just set chain tension, pedaling forward to check everything: there's a fairly strong resistance in the drive of the hub. I thought this was might be a tight BB, then chain tension, but those were both good. Pulled another B2C from the box and checked it out in hand: same thing, lots of resistance in drive, almost as if the cones were too tight. This doesn't seem to be causing any problem, and it's not noticed when riding, just a little disconcerting when pedaling in the stand as the drive will stop immediately when forward pressure is released.
Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[Bicycle808]

The internet rumor mill suggests that SA sets the bearings on the tight side from the factory. I have an S2 i'm about to lace; i haven't cracked her open yet, but i plan on ever-so-slightly loosening the cones prior to using it. It does seem a bit tight, although my experience has always been that a hub that feels tight on its own will feel less-so once it's built into a wheel, and shod with tires.

FWIW, the early versions of these hubs were terribly unreliable. They shipped them without one of the springs inside, and would ship the buyer a spring if they asked. They've since remedied that problem, but I've heard a lot of internet anecdotes about these hubs blowing up. I bought one anyway, but I have a plan-b hub at the ready, just in case. I suspect the recent hubs that have failed were being used for "off-label" purposes, like trails. Regardless, I wouldn't expect the legendary bomb-proof reliability of the Torpedo Duomatic out of these hubs. Still think it's cool they're being offered....

Now if only SRAM would make a manual kickback version of the Automatix....

 

[The Black Monark]

Understood. The interesting thing is: hub coasts very well, no chain grab/rock at all. I adjusted the drive side cone, but don't have a 23mm cone wrench or something to modify so can't fully disassemble and adjust right now. Will have to soon, tho: the outer bearing did not have much grease.

 

[Bicycle808]

Yeah, strange that a tight hub would coast well.... hmmmmm

 

[The Black Monark]

yeah, only in "drive", dust cap not binding, nothing else externally. It's the same on the other one I have here. It's not noticed when on the bike, but I'm sure it would be better if it was better

 

[justride]

I have a couple of the SA kickbacks. Yeah, they are a little tight in the hand, and even on the bike rack, but on the road, they spin just fine. Have had no problems with them yet.

 

[Bicycle808]

I have a couple of the SA kickbacks. Yeah, they are a little tight in the hand, and even on the bike rack, but on the road, they spin just fine. Have had no problems with them yet.

That's good to know.... I really really want to love these hubs, but all the negative reviews and anecdotes online have me spooked. My kickback bike is second in my build queue so i'll be finding out firsthand before long....

 

[justride]

It's funny, there was a time when my bikes were single speed or 3 speed nexus, but now I only have one 3-speed, three kickbacks, and a couple single speeds.

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

B808. I thought it could have been your BB but when you stop spinning that in the bikestand, the rear wheel still slows quickly. Maybe it breaks in? I was thinking of using the two speed Sturmey but now think I will stick with the 3spd sachs 515's and the sturmey 3-spd coasters.

 

[Bicycle808]

Once I lace this wheel and adjust everything, I'll let you know how it feels. Generally speaking, a fat guy sitting on his couch and twisting an unlaced hub's driver ain't the most scientific way to test bike components.